Very good points below. That is one thing that I did notice over and over.
While Wayne saves gas, he causes others to burn more. Many dozens of drivers ( because they are not into the hypermiler passion ) will need to apply friction brakes to avoid Wanye.... wasting gas... then, get pissed.... and floor it to pass him, wasting ever more. So the big picture is.... Wayne INCREASES fuel consuption in his geographical region.

Now, not always... but often enough that there is little, if any net savings.
It was also interesting that in 3 days of person to person conversation, I don't recall this topic ever coming up in 2005. I still say there are times and places for everything... 12am on a lonesome road..... have at it!

And I work with 100's of big rig drivers every day.
#1 drafting behind them DOES NOT reduce thier FE. Period.
#2 speaking with them, it does worry them and distract them
#3 while they know a fatal collision will not be their fault, they are in agreement for the most part that psycologically it stays with them for the rest of thier lives... not to mention it is ugly to look at.... plus all the paperwork / investigations / police reports / insurance / time delays....
#4 so for me, from a scientific perspective, drafting a big rig has no negative impact, but from a human perspective, it does not make any sense. It is not fair for YOU or me to put that extra emotional load on the truck driver ahead... it just isn't the right thing to do.

There is a niche for Wayne's style. But that niche is difficult to find.
His only fault is taking things too far, too often. I think he would be better off taking a step back, and looking at what really matters in life... such as staying alive, and being a friendly, courteous driver. But that remains my opinion. I will say he HAS helped many impove FE, myself included. He's just never going to drive me around anywhere! Peace.

 

Since this is embellished anyway, just say "billions and billions" of drivers? {sigh} This is an old speeders excuse anyway - I'll waste more fuel if you are in my way. In my neighborhood, tailgaters can easily get by - my fault?

We have a number of excellent possibilities for campaign mangers that cherry pick the most inflamattory material and misconstrure it as "the big picture"? gpsman1 is obsessed to paint a picture that myself, xcel, others communte virually teathered to an 18-wheeler. I rarely do on my work commutes. Hot Georgia stresses courtsey comes first, but gpsman1 will ignore all such posts to serve his adjenda.

So throw another bomb and say "Peace"?

 

Actually, it was probably trillions of drivers and billions of gallons of oil.

The point is that there is more to reducing fuel consumption in the world than that little guage on your dash board. It was not mentioned in that post that the would-be pinhead was speeding. It was that P&G is not something that can be practiced with others on the road as it forces everyone behind them to hit the brakes (when the guy in front of you is gliding) unnecessarily. In traffic, a brake light in one place often propagates to a full stop (and a potential fender bender) a mile back. So P&G'ing with other cars around you is not a good way to really reduce everyone's oil consumption, just yours at other's expense. Everyone going a a constant speed and all avoiding braking and accelerating helps and that is definitely incompatible with P&G. Again, if you are the only one on the road, go ahead. It is a great technique.

We need to think as a collective if we are going to collectively reduce our oil consumption, not as a bunch of individuals. I know its hard to do in our individual metal bubbles, but we need to be pragmatic.

Roch

 

Roch,

It's very interesting how many people have very blind eyes to parts in my last post "I dont' draft on my work commutes - 90% of my driving", etc, etc. Are your part of the party that only cares to paint some of us as a whack job even when facts say otherwise?

Also, my work commute is at a relatively steady speed, but it will never be mentioned as it's no good as attack material.


Notice how effective collectively our elected officials have been on this matter?


That's why this thread should end - it's was never an honest discussion, but an attack on hypermiling.

 

[quote=Delta Flyer;115981]Never mind he confessed - cyber-behead him anyway - Death to Hypermilers!!![\quote]

But he didn't really "confess" did he? If he did he would have said that it was wrong to be that close.... instead he said....

Dennis and I were already up to 95.x mpg about 15 miles out when we started receiving the calls to punch it up and forget about FE. The only choice I had while running 65 + was to pull into a Close in. The following pic was taken during our 15 - 20 minutes while flirting with that close in as well as the exact time Dennis had written that paragraph …

His "only choice"? He also had a choice of getting less mileage saying "oh well guess I won't do so well today MPG wise but I don't want to risk anyones life" and not riding that close to a trucks bumper.

Thats not a confession....

Its not "death to hypermilers." Its be a bit reasonable when trying to hypermile. Its not just your life and your passengers life you are risking... someone in front of that trucker hits the brakes, you can't stop in time, rear end him and then the mass pileup behind you begins. Sure all the idiots in the back shouldn't have been driving so fast and following so close that they piled into you.... but you still triggered it by being too darn close yourself.

I'm only commenting on that particular incident in my case... not a grand assumption that everything hypermilers do is evil.

 

TeeSter,

I was melodramatic on the "Death to Hypermilers" remark, but it's obvious the detractors of Wayne only want to cherry pick just what will make him appear idiotic.

Several of you are trying to say that close drafting is what all hypermilers do all the time and just shout over my repeated posts I don't draft on my work commutes, neither does Hot Georgia....

A discussion would be possible, but things are too hot right now. There are too many members with selective listening attacking hypermiling. That's no envirnoment to respond to.

Again, the only purpose of this thread was to discredit. It's clear that pattern will continue as long as the thread is unlocked.

 

I was not referring to you, but the original article, the one that got this started quotes Wayne as having a 2 hour commute.

I'm part of the party that is trying to define a midddle ground here. There seems to be a group of very inteligent people with great ideas, but seem to be overzealous in applying them. When some of us try to point it out, we get treated as zealots trying to kill hypermilers.

Oh, since others don't have the same passion for FE as hypermilers, it's OK to cut them off, force them to burn more because hey, their just normies right? It takes longer and more effort to find solutions that are generally applicable to large populations, so if you really want to be part of the solution, you might try advocating that we be more pragmatic and try to have a positive effect on those around us. I'm sorry I don't seem to be able to find the right wording to get that point accross.

That's a load of hooey. Many have said positive things about the contributions of Wayne and yourself, but that does not mean we have to take everything as gospel, nor that us norma-milers don't have something reasonable to say, even if it is to say that some of you need to take a step back. If honest reasonable discussion is not the point of this thread of this forum, then it should be ended. I've said what I have to say, so I'm done.

Roch

 

Sorry, I guess I'm not done. Where has anyone made Wayne look idiotic?

Where did anyone make that generalization? Comments were made about one specific event (the picture) and some have stated that this is not a good idea. It was never generalized to all hypermilers.

Ahh, remember, the hottest fire makes the strongest steel. Nothing like a little debate to stimulate the neurons... (and kill work productivity)

I thought the purpose of this thread was to exchange ideas, even if we don't agree with them, but hey, thats just how I think...

Cheers,

Roch

 

Too many on this thread need a rest on this thread.

The positve things said of Wayne are in response to the attacks.

The drafting thing has been overblown for political effect.

Roch - Does the thread title "The guy should be banned from the road" sound like an honest discussion rather than an attack?

I've lost count of saying I make sure others can get by me. I can only conclude some intentionally lie about my driving to promote their agenda. If you are "middle ground" - I'd hate to know your definition of the opposing side.

 

John, you just don't give up do you? Making things up about Wayne, doesn't make you look better. You claim one minute you get hypermiler mileage, and then criticize hypermiling techniques. You claim you got a 100mpg round trip, and have to change your story that it was all downhill when I ask for details. You tell us that your at 4,000rpm's at 65mph going up hill to work, then say you get X MPG that I know is impossible, even if you drafted.

The people that can push the envelope here know how and where the mileage can be had. Your tales never add up to me! Wayne said that you are not in my class with regard to my driving techniques, so you get mad and play the fear card on him. You've done this since he first told you that a year ago when he had to ban you from Cleanmpg.com. Now Wayne has made it public here that he as compared our skills in person, and you came up with the short end of the stick. Now, what good does it do to constantly bag mouth others? Wayne is right, you will never get over me and that's a real problem for you.

GaryG