Like I said before Jason, you don't own the copyright. So your New York Times example doesn't apply. The copyright belongs to the original authors, and apparently they don't care.

Eventually though, mixedpower.com will make a mistake and publish an article where the author DOES care, and they'll find themselves with a lawsuit (or a cease-and-desist letter).

Troy

 

Like you said? Like I said.

 

This is an excellent article on copyright laws > http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
It's simply put, too.

Copyright infringement is probably the easiest way to get your site shut down. I know several forums at MSN groups that have gotten into trouble on this very issue, some notorious for wholesale cut-and-paste just like MixedPower.com.

It very easy to find copycats. Just find the URL of the pictures, if the article has any. Put the text of the article in Google, and it usually will reveal the original.

I encourage everyone to link, not paste as it will avoid most problems.

 

I'm one of those plagerized authors and can assure you I am not at all happy about the plagerism. But all this chest beating about what we should do and how much we do or do not care is pretty off target.

Let's put it in perspective. I've shared the article that was stolen on at least 2 sites on the net, for free, out of the goodness of my heart. I'd have shared it with this guy too had he bothered to ask. Now you guys think I've got the spare time and money to hire a lawyer to spank this guy for something I've previously shared for free and am suffering no financial loss from?

I have written to Daniel Curran and he did reply while in Europe and seemed open to trying to resolve the problem...unfortunately he hasn't since written back...I sent a follow up (sternly written) today. I could seek to have his site shut down by contacting his ISP I suppose, but I honestly don't know where to start for that.

Clearly this is copyright violation, clearly I'm not happy at all about it, but also just as clear is I'm personally suffering no harm and can't do much more than write a few letters and make some demands without laying out cash that I will almost certainly never be able to recover. I seriously doubt that mixedpower has makes enough money to make a lawsuit worthwhile.

 

True, being a copycat is less serious if there is no money involved.

Still, building a forum is not easy. If someone takes your content without permission, it could hurt the growth of your site.

It's up to each individual if they wish to share their content (i.e. "public domain") and weather or not to prosecute.

 

Evan,

You know we've both talked about this matter on an individual basis. I am not looking to pursue legal action, but don't see a problem with discussing the situation. I have a problem with this for a few reasons: ethics, financial loss and harm to this community. There isn't much to address about the ethical side of it... that's obvious. Financial and community harm are caused by the same thing. By violating copyright laws and redistributing content, a website is able to unfairly rank in search engines for valuable keywords (possibly pushing other websites down). Extra exposure leads to popularity, which in turn creates a competitor that [back to the ethics] deserves not to be successful. The lack of exclusivity at the violated websites decreases their value in every sense of the word. This is my problem.

You're more than welcome to express your opinion about why you aren't overly concerned, but others disagree.

48 hours ago Slashdot published our press release and sent over 45,000 visitors to GreenHybrid. What if MixedPower had taken our data and gotten published at Slashdot? You can honestly say this would not be a problem?

 

Jason, you need to read more closely. It is a problem, I am concerned, but those proclaiming what I and other's who've been plagerized should do are out of touch with reality. It is not fiscally reasonable for me to pursue this legally.

I've written to the site owner--first immediately after you contacted me, I replied to his initial response, and followed up again today. I've threatened legal action and to contact his ISP...but let's face it, the legal thing is a bluff b/c it is just not realistic to do so.

I have no problem with discussing it, and in fact I strongly encourage it. I even encourage everyone here to go to the mixed power site and place comments under each and every article that was plagerized from here proclaiming it an illegal copyright violation to publish there. Go to there forums there and raise a stink. Be loud and obnoxious but fair.

I am as much or more of an pro-copyright person than about anyone here.

I've never once even remotely suggested it isn't a problem, but preaching to the choir here and not taking group action there is worthless. Proclaiming that there's something I should be doing to resolve the problem is fantasy....I've pretty much got no 'real' outlets unless Greenhybrid wants to sponsor my lawsuit.

 

Just after posting the previous message I got a reply from Daniel. It is below followed my my response.
--evan

--- Daniel Curran <Daniel@Curran.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Evan,
>
> Was cleaning up emails today and found yours - sorry
> for the delay.
>
> I in no way meant to offend you and apologize if I
> did. I always give your
> site as the source of any articles posted at
> MixedPower and I hope it has
> contributed to your readership.
>
> My intention is to "spread the word" - not offend.
>
> So, is there something I can do at MixedPower as a
> token of sincerity?
>
> Can I get your permission to keep posting relevant
> Hybrid articles?
>
> There have been one or two emails from other
> websites about postings and all
> have been fine with the duplication. Most sites
> adopt the position of
> strength in numbers. Indeed, the gas calculator I
> use is free for anyone
> else to use as long as they leave the links intact.
>
> I feel really, really crappy that you're so upset.
>
> What do you think is a fair resolution? Do you want
> me to remove the
> articles? If so I will
>
> However - I'd like to be able to mirror your
> material with links back to
> your site. Is there something we can work out?
>
> I am open to suggestions
>
> Thanks and Best
>
> Daniel Curran
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Fusco [mailto:efusco@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:30 AM
> To: Daniel Curran
> Subject: Re:
>
> Ok Daniel,
> I'll await you to return and re-contact me. I've
> cooled off a little bit,
> but I'm a bit of a stickler for copyright laws (my
> other interest is
> photography) and this really took me by surprise and
> ticked me off since I
> was never asked permission for use.
>
> Of note, just refering back to the originating site
> is not, under copyright
> law, adequate. To post original work of any kind
> you must have the
> copyright owner's permission. Further, posting much
> more than a quote and a
> link from another site is plagarizing too.
>
> When you run a for-profit business you have to obey
> these laws or face
> financial and legal consequences.
>
> Enjoy your trip and get in touch sometime after you
> return.
> --evan
>
>
> --- Daniel Curran <Daniel@Curran.net> wrote:
> > Evan,
> >
> > Im in Europe right now on dial up, painful. Mike
> Maline sent me an
> > email as well and I replied in kind
> >
> > No disrespect meant by the article, thanks for
> understanding. I do
> > quote the sources to hopefully drive traffic back
> to those sites and
> > to show respect for copywrite.
> >
> > I am sure we can work out a mutual exchange
> between the sites for the
> > betterment of the hybrid community at large. I'll
> give it some thought
> > and when I get back to a faster lan line I'll send
> you an email.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Daniel Curran


**************** My Response ***************************
Daniel,
First let me clarify a couple things. Greenhybrid is not my site. It is actually the property of Jason Siegel (Phone: (407) 862-0413). The only article of mine that you've plagerized is the "Why don't I get the EPA mileage" one.

But, there is quite an uproar at GreenHybrid over this, and frankly I don't blame them. I think a good first step would be to contact Jason either via phone or e-mail and apologize and immediately remove the articles you've taken from his site. That is most clearly an illegal copyright violation. You could be at risk for civil suits and it would be very likely your site could/would be shut down.

Next, if there are articles you want to post there you should contact the original author of the article and ask their permission and give full credit on your site with the article if they agree. You neither asked my permission nor gave me credit and yet you are recieving readership and thus web site benefit.

I do expect you to remove my article at least and think it would be best if you removed all articles for which you do not have the specific permission to publish there from the orignal authors.

Jason can be reached at: [edit by jason: removed for anti-spam purposes]

Let me add, in closing, that I think you have a well designed informative web site. I have no financial stake and want no financial benefit from my article. I don't care if my article benefits your site more than Jason's more than Priuschat or whatever, but to me this is a serious ethical issue and reflects badly on you and your site. The illegality of what you've done is clear and you need to read that article I sent you earlier so that you'll be better informed about that. I wish you and mixedpower great success. I also hope Jason's site does well. I want everyone in this hybrid community to 'play nice' and set an example for all..but that extends to all things and not just our choice of cars.
--evan

 

Thank you for your correspondence in the matter. I apologize if I misinterpreted some of what you've said. I'd also like to emphasize that we are both on the same side, and this conversation shouldn't influence the going-ons of anything in the community.

First, let me just say that it isn't entirely unlikely that Daniel is reading this thread. Next, his ostensibly apologetic attitude doesn't really fly with me, though it's unfortunate I have to be cynical about this. After being contacted multiple times by myself and others, as well as my posting in his forums (and the topic being deleted for obvious reasons), Daniel knows that what he is doing is illegal, unethical and unremorseful. Finally, I do not expect him to change his ways (though I'd like to be proven wrong) as his site consists mostly of this external content. Without it, he doesn't have much of a site. I hope that isn't taken in the wrong way -- I'm stating the facts, not trying to be cocky.

It's unfortunate that there is a situation like this, and likely we could all just ignore it. But, I think it's worth discussing and appreciate all of your opinions.

P.S. I always refrain from posting my email address online so spam bots can't pick it up. I've edited your post to take it out.

 

I cross-posted this discussion (a link) to mixedpower.com.

Let's watch it get deleted.

Troy