I'm not surprised to hear that some of you have replaced the catalytic converter. I was advised to do it as well, but that it wasn't included under the extended warranty I had on the civic, AND that it would cost nearly $1,200.00. Since we don't have emmissions testing in my state, I took a chance that such a miserly little car wouldn't be polluting too much, even with a poor catalytic converter.

Now, I get this notice from Honda stating that they would reimburse me if I HAD replaced the converter, while at the same time, seeming to generously extend the warranty to a period of time that, for a large percentage of those concerned, would have expired by the time the letter arrived (extending the warranty to 8 years on a 2003 model would make it expire in...that's right...2011!). So, I'm getting the software update (free regardless of warranty status) and see if that fixes the check engine light staying on all the time. I hope they will later issue a free check engine light replacement, as mine has been going above and beyond the call of a normal check engine lights duties for several years!

The big question is whether these faulty sensor readings have damaged the catalytic converters, OR hurt our fuel economy. My mileage has dropped significantly from nearly 40mpg average, down in the low 30's. Some of that is summertime driving with the ac on, but it didn't used to get that low in the summer.

And finally, if Honda is willing to pay for repairs made because of this problem, why wouldn't they pay for the repairs now, if needed? (even if the car's mileage exceeds thier unrealistic 10k/year usage?)

I'll try to post my results from the dealer as soon as I get it back.

Venting over.

 

I have a 03 HCH with 55,000 miles on it and it is currently at the stealership for the recall. They said it will take several hours to complete. I didn't think to ask what they would be fixing. (was in a hurry) So is it just a ecm update or are they replacing oxygen sensors as well? I will find out upon picking it up this afternoon, but just want to make sure all needed work is being completed.

 

It would be very interesting to see what the result of a smog check on your car would be. If the oxygen sensors really did go out then your converter is certainly toast by now. Conversely, if the whole "bad oxygen sensor" "bad converter" problem was a software glitch, then your car will most likely still pass. (Reduced gas mileage could be a lot of things, a bad cat does not usually effect mpg.) In either case, information you should have in hand before dealing with Honda. Because if your cat is out then you certainly want them to fix it, but that would be pointless if it is still working!

I take it they recommended a cat. converter change without bothering to confirm with a smog test that the unit had actually failed???

 

Pretty sure what they are doing is resetting the software so that it doesn't keep giving "false positives" so to speak. Those of us who paid for a cat replacement were replacing a cat that in all likelihood was perfectly fine, it's just that the software was flagging it as bad because of faulty parameters.

Those of you rolling with a check engine code may find that once the new software is loaded, your codes go away and your cat is fine.

 

Right, I understand that. It does not speak well of Honda service that this happened once, let alone became a pattern. How hard would it have been to stick a probe up the tailpipe and actually verify that the cat had gone out? Multiply that by every service department that failed to do so, and well, it really isn't pretty.

 

Agreed, but from the POV of the local Honda dealership, they were selling a huge number of cat replacements, and profit like that is huge for a local dealership. NOt sayin' it's right, but that's, IMHO, why the local dealer WANTS that cat to be defective. They're not paid by Honda corporate to be detectives.

I wonder how the innner workings of Honda and their dealer networks handle the finances of this? Let's use me as an example. I paid a local dealer $1011 in parts plus $105 labor to replace my cat, which Honda now admits likely did not need to be replaced. If I paid $1011 full retail for the parts (cat, and misc gaskets), I would be willing to bet there is a substantial profit built into that price, most likely 30-40% or more. Labor also is a profit for the dealer, although I have no idea how much.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the local dealer profited $300-400 from selling me a cat Honda know admits I didn't need. So now Honda corporate is going (I hope) to reimburse me the full cost of my repair. Does Honda corporate go back to the dealer and tell them to cough up the profit the dealer made on the repair??

 

True. However, they are paid by the customer to correctly diagnose problems with the vehicle. Systematically telling customers parts are bad when they are not is either widespread incompetence or outright fraud. Either way, perfect conditions for the class action lawyers to swoop in.

 

O.K. Just got mine back from the dealership. They updated the software, and now they say the sensors are not mis-interpreting the signals, so the check engine light is out. They said everything should be fine now. I guess time will tell. For the record, this was done free of charge. And not because I fell under the 'extended warranty', but from what I understand, they will always update software as needed free of charge. My HCH has 135,000 miles on it and is over the 8 years from purchase date I believe.

I will update any changes or other related issues as they occur.

 

Where did you hear this? I think my car is effected but I can't find anything official about it.

I have a thread here discussing it:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...-recall-27228/

 

I don't think there was an actual "recall"

A mailing was sent to (I assume) the original owners of 2003-2005 HCH's regarding possible reimbursement of money spent replacing catalytic converters and secondary oxygen sensors. The letters also recommended an upgrade to the ECU on these models.

If you bought your HCH used you probably won't receive these letters. Also I'm guessing the letters were only sent to owners of cars with specific VIN's.