A study says that ethanol is worse than gasoline for the environment
#51
03-29-2008, 05:24 PM
Re: A study says that ethanol is worse than gasoline for the environment
It's not all about being palatable. It's about being fit for humans.
Would you eat corn with mold or fungus? No. But you can make ethanol with it, and ethanol plants buy damaged corn when they can because it is cheaper.
Would you eat corn that was irrigated with grey water, brown water, recycled water, or sewer water? No. But you can grow corn with this sewer water or unfiltered swamp water and use the corn for ethanol. I don't think the U.S.D.A. allows you to grow food with pig urine. But hey, it's high in nitrogen, and corn will grow off it. You can make ethanol with that unfit for humans corn.
Hey, I'm all for it. That would be a cash cow. Didn't you ever hear of CRV? California Redemption Value? 5 cents a bottle baby, 5 cents a bottle...
some influence on the process or end products. Though broken corn is not a major
concern for ethanol production, mold damage can have a considerable effect on ethanol
yield. Low test weight also is considered to reduce ethanol yield because the kernels are not as densely packed with starch." Sourcing Corn for Ethanol: Impacts on Local Processing, Iowa State University Extension, Nov 2006
As the density of the corn mass is decreased, all the remaining nutrients are concentrated, including protein, and fats. Not much in the way of sugars, I should think. But any molds could affect the sugar content.
Last edited by centrider; 03-29-2008 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Insertion of citation date.
#52
03-29-2008, 05:33 PM
Re: A study says that ethanol is worse than gasoline for the environment
Yes, and no. Yes, it could be used "whole" to feed livestock, but as it turns out, this is a poor choice. Livestock cannot really digest whole kernal corn ( and now that I think of it, neither can you and I ) so it must be ground into meal or flour first, and mixed with other feedstock as well.
Guess what? Ethanol plants GRIND the corn, and then they use ENZYMES to break down the starch into simple sugars. The enzymes happily ignore the protiens and fats ( aka corn oil ) in the corn. That ground up, partially enzyme digested corn mash, with all the vitamins and minerals and protien and fat still intact comes out the back end of the ethanol plant. This "distiller's grain" is like baby food for cows. Healthy, palatable, and easy for the cows to digest. ( makes them fart 60% less methane too, but I digress... ) A 50 MGY ethanol plant will grind about 2000 pounds of whole kernal corn per minute, and manufacture about 1300 pounds per minute of animal feed out the back end. This animal feed has more calories per pound than whole kernal corn, and sells for about $75 per ton, where as whole kernal corn costs about $150 per ton. What do you want to use to bulk up your cattle for market? Food with lots of starch? Or food with lots of protien and fat? Well, to help you make up your mind, starch has 4 calories per gram and fat has 9 calories per gram. The high fat food is half price too.
And NO. NONE of the corn used in the ethanol industry is "food grade" and NONE of it (legally) is ever used for distilled spirits for human consumption. At least not in the U.S. I can't speak for Russia.
It's not all about being palatable. It's about being fit for humans.
Would you eat corn with mold or fungus? No. But you can make ethanol with it, and ethanol plants buy damaged corn when they can because it is cheaper.
Would you eat corn that was irrigated with grey water, brown water, recycled water, or sewer water? No. But you can grow corn with this sewer water or unfiltered swamp water and use the corn for ethanol. I don't think the U.S.D.A. allows you to grow food with pig urine. But hey, it's high in nitrogen, and corn will grow off it. You can make ethanol with that unfit for humans corn.
Hey, I'm all for it. That would be a cash cow. Didn't you ever hear of CRV? California Redemption Value? 5 cents a bottle baby, 5 cents a bottle...
Guess what? Ethanol plants GRIND the corn, and then they use ENZYMES to break down the starch into simple sugars. The enzymes happily ignore the protiens and fats ( aka corn oil ) in the corn. That ground up, partially enzyme digested corn mash, with all the vitamins and minerals and protien and fat still intact comes out the back end of the ethanol plant. This "distiller's grain" is like baby food for cows. Healthy, palatable, and easy for the cows to digest. ( makes them fart 60% less methane too, but I digress... ) A 50 MGY ethanol plant will grind about 2000 pounds of whole kernal corn per minute, and manufacture about 1300 pounds per minute of animal feed out the back end. This animal feed has more calories per pound than whole kernal corn, and sells for about $75 per ton, where as whole kernal corn costs about $150 per ton. What do you want to use to bulk up your cattle for market? Food with lots of starch? Or food with lots of protien and fat? Well, to help you make up your mind, starch has 4 calories per gram and fat has 9 calories per gram. The high fat food is half price too.
And NO. NONE of the corn used in the ethanol industry is "food grade" and NONE of it (legally) is ever used for distilled spirits for human consumption. At least not in the U.S. I can't speak for Russia.
It's not all about being palatable. It's about being fit for humans.
Would you eat corn with mold or fungus? No. But you can make ethanol with it, and ethanol plants buy damaged corn when they can because it is cheaper.
Would you eat corn that was irrigated with grey water, brown water, recycled water, or sewer water? No. But you can grow corn with this sewer water or unfiltered swamp water and use the corn for ethanol. I don't think the U.S.D.A. allows you to grow food with pig urine. But hey, it's high in nitrogen, and corn will grow off it. You can make ethanol with that unfit for humans corn.
Hey, I'm all for it. That would be a cash cow. Didn't you ever hear of CRV? California Redemption Value? 5 cents a bottle baby, 5 cents a bottle...
#53
03-30-2008, 06:57 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: A study says that ethanol is worse than gasoline for the environment
Water useage in perspective:
It is estimated that it may take around 1,750 gallons of water to produce a bushel of
corn. That sounds like a lot, but did you know it takes 684,000 gallons of water per acre
per year to irrigate a golf course? And that, on average, a homeowner uses 21,600
gallons to water his or her lawn each year? Source: Nebraska Corn Board
In the United States, 96 percent of corn used for ethanol production is not irrigated.
Therefore, the current accepted statistic of 785 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol
when irrigating applies to only 4 percent of total ethanol produced today. The ethanol
industry only produces 260 million gallons of ethanol per year with irrigated corn crops
out of a total of 6.5 billion gallons. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
According to a recent article by the Associated Press, a typical 40 million gallon per year
ethanol plant uses about 330,000 gallons of water per day. But did you know that an
urban area of roughly 180,000 residents (roughly the size of Overland Park, Kansas)
uses 23 million gallons of water per day and the city of Chicago pumps 500 million
gallons per day from Lake Michigan.
On average a corn plant needs 30 inches of water per year to produce a maximum yield.
Within the next two years, we will see drought resistant corn that can produce a
maximum yield with only 15 inches of water. Thats a 50 percent reduction in water
needs! Source: Monsanto, Syngenta and Pioneer Seed Company
According the U.S. Geological Survey, an acre of corn gives off 3,000-4,000 gallons of
water each day through transpiration. As a corn plant grows, it takes in water, but it also
transpires water, releasing it into the atmosphere and starting the hydrologic cycle all
over again. This process is known as water transpiration. Source: U.S. Geological Survey
On average, the production of one gallon of ethanol requires three gallons of water. It
takes approximately 2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline. However,
with new developments, it is estimated that it will take between 2 -2.5 gallons
of water for each gallon of ethanol. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
If a person turns on the faucet four times a day for an average of 2 minutes he uses 24 gallons of water per day, 730 gallons per month and 8760 gallons per year. If the average person drives 12,000 miles per year, uses approximately 600 gallons of fuel with an average of 20 miles per gallon, and drives using an E10 blend, only 1590 gallons of water was used to produce the fuel.
In most cases, a third of the water used in ethanol production is reused within the
production process. The remaining water is evaporated in the atmosphere or discharged
into drainage pumps where it is filtered and held in a drainage pond for reuse.
© 2008 Ethanol Promotion and Information Council, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
It is estimated that it may take around 1,750 gallons of water to produce a bushel of
corn. That sounds like a lot, but did you know it takes 684,000 gallons of water per acre
per year to irrigate a golf course? And that, on average, a homeowner uses 21,600
gallons to water his or her lawn each year? Source: Nebraska Corn Board
In the United States, 96 percent of corn used for ethanol production is not irrigated.
Therefore, the current accepted statistic of 785 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol
when irrigating applies to only 4 percent of total ethanol produced today. The ethanol
industry only produces 260 million gallons of ethanol per year with irrigated corn crops
out of a total of 6.5 billion gallons. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
According to a recent article by the Associated Press, a typical 40 million gallon per year
ethanol plant uses about 330,000 gallons of water per day. But did you know that an
urban area of roughly 180,000 residents (roughly the size of Overland Park, Kansas)
uses 23 million gallons of water per day and the city of Chicago pumps 500 million
gallons per day from Lake Michigan.
On average a corn plant needs 30 inches of water per year to produce a maximum yield.
Within the next two years, we will see drought resistant corn that can produce a
maximum yield with only 15 inches of water. Thats a 50 percent reduction in water
needs! Source: Monsanto, Syngenta and Pioneer Seed Company
According the U.S. Geological Survey, an acre of corn gives off 3,000-4,000 gallons of
water each day through transpiration. As a corn plant grows, it takes in water, but it also
transpires water, releasing it into the atmosphere and starting the hydrologic cycle all
over again. This process is known as water transpiration. Source: U.S. Geological Survey
On average, the production of one gallon of ethanol requires three gallons of water. It
takes approximately 2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline. However,
with new developments, it is estimated that it will take between 2 -2.5 gallons
of water for each gallon of ethanol. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
If a person turns on the faucet four times a day for an average of 2 minutes he uses 24 gallons of water per day, 730 gallons per month and 8760 gallons per year. If the average person drives 12,000 miles per year, uses approximately 600 gallons of fuel with an average of 20 miles per gallon, and drives using an E10 blend, only 1590 gallons of water was used to produce the fuel.
In most cases, a third of the water used in ethanol production is reused within the
production process. The remaining water is evaporated in the atmosphere or discharged
into drainage pumps where it is filtered and held in a drainage pond for reuse.
© 2008 Ethanol Promotion and Information Council, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
#55
03-30-2008, 08:24 PM
Re: A study says that ethanol is worse than gasoline for the environment
Water useage in perspective:
It is estimated that it may take around 1,750 gallons of water to produce a bushel of
corn. That sounds like a lot, but did you know it takes 684,000 gallons of water per acre
per year to irrigate a golf course? And that, on average, a homeowner uses 21,600
gallons to water his or her lawn each year? Source: Nebraska Corn Board
In the United States, 96 percent of corn used for ethanol production is not irrigated.
Therefore, the current accepted statistic of 785 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol
when irrigating applies to only 4 percent of total ethanol produced today. The ethanol
industry only produces 260 million gallons of ethanol per year with irrigated corn crops
out of a total of 6.5 billion gallons. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
According to a recent article by the Associated Press, a typical 40 million gallon per year
ethanol plant uses about 330,000 gallons of water per day. But did you know that an
urban area of roughly 180,000 residents (roughly the size of Overland Park, Kansas)
uses 23 million gallons of water per day and the city of Chicago pumps 500 million
gallons per day from Lake Michigan.
On average a corn plant needs 30 inches of water per year to produce a maximum yield.
Within the next two years, we will see drought resistant corn that can produce a
maximum yield with only 15 inches of water. Thats a 50 percent reduction in water
needs! Source: Monsanto, Syngenta and Pioneer Seed Company
According the U.S. Geological Survey, an acre of corn gives off 3,000-4,000 gallons of
water each day through transpiration. As a corn plant grows, it takes in water, but it also
transpires water, releasing it into the atmosphere and starting the hydrologic cycle all
over again. This process is known as water transpiration. Source: U.S. Geological Survey
On average, the production of one gallon of ethanol requires three gallons of water. It
takes approximately 2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline. However,
with new developments, it is estimated that it will take between 2 -2.5 gallons
of water for each gallon of ethanol. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
If a person turns on the faucet four times a day for an average of 2 minutes he uses 24 gallons of water per day, 730 gallons per month and 8760 gallons per year. If the average person drives 12,000 miles per year, uses approximately 600 gallons of fuel with an average of 20 miles per gallon, and drives using an E10 blend, only 1590 gallons of water was used to produce the fuel.
In most cases, a third of the water used in ethanol production is reused within the
production process. The remaining water is evaporated in the atmosphere or discharged
into drainage pumps where it is filtered and held in a drainage pond for reuse.
© 2008 Ethanol Promotion and Information Council, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
It is estimated that it may take around 1,750 gallons of water to produce a bushel of
corn. That sounds like a lot, but did you know it takes 684,000 gallons of water per acre
per year to irrigate a golf course? And that, on average, a homeowner uses 21,600
gallons to water his or her lawn each year? Source: Nebraska Corn Board
In the United States, 96 percent of corn used for ethanol production is not irrigated.
Therefore, the current accepted statistic of 785 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol
when irrigating applies to only 4 percent of total ethanol produced today. The ethanol
industry only produces 260 million gallons of ethanol per year with irrigated corn crops
out of a total of 6.5 billion gallons. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
According to a recent article by the Associated Press, a typical 40 million gallon per year
ethanol plant uses about 330,000 gallons of water per day. But did you know that an
urban area of roughly 180,000 residents (roughly the size of Overland Park, Kansas)
uses 23 million gallons of water per day and the city of Chicago pumps 500 million
gallons per day from Lake Michigan.
On average a corn plant needs 30 inches of water per year to produce a maximum yield.
Within the next two years, we will see drought resistant corn that can produce a
maximum yield with only 15 inches of water. Thats a 50 percent reduction in water
needs! Source: Monsanto, Syngenta and Pioneer Seed Company
According the U.S. Geological Survey, an acre of corn gives off 3,000-4,000 gallons of
water each day through transpiration. As a corn plant grows, it takes in water, but it also
transpires water, releasing it into the atmosphere and starting the hydrologic cycle all
over again. This process is known as water transpiration. Source: U.S. Geological Survey
On average, the production of one gallon of ethanol requires three gallons of water. It
takes approximately 2.5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of gasoline. However,
with new developments, it is estimated that it will take between 2 -2.5 gallons
of water for each gallon of ethanol. Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory
If a person turns on the faucet four times a day for an average of 2 minutes he uses 24 gallons of water per day, 730 gallons per month and 8760 gallons per year. If the average person drives 12,000 miles per year, uses approximately 600 gallons of fuel with an average of 20 miles per gallon, and drives using an E10 blend, only 1590 gallons of water was used to produce the fuel.
In most cases, a third of the water used in ethanol production is reused within the
production process. The remaining water is evaporated in the atmosphere or discharged
into drainage pumps where it is filtered and held in a drainage pond for reuse.
© 2008 Ethanol Promotion and Information Council, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Right: Corn transpires, and sends it's water into the atmosphere. However, the prevailing westerlies will carry that water to, hmm Chicago? Rain for the Plains comes across the mountains.
California grows a lot of corn - and right now the state water management district is trying to work out how to parse that water.
More to the point, that aquifer under the Plains is being drawn down at an alarming rate.
Yep. You certainly have hit the nail. Water is important, and how it will be used in the future is becoming an issue.
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