4wd feh quick question
#21
01-04-2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: 4wd feh quick question
I guess I just feel you overstate the situation....
Honestly... I've been on some real sheets of ice... I have yet, in 22 years of experience, to have ever had engine braking,
or in 3 years of regenerative braking, cause my FWD vehicle to loose traction when I've taken my foot off the pedal.
Ford has a US patent that involves this very issue. The patented technique calls for the lessening, substantially so, of regenerative braking capability as the OAT declines to and below freezing. The same patent designates that regenerative braking along with actual brake application is to be instantly disabled upon ABS activation, "triggering".
As some have pointed out I cannot attest to the fact that Ford actually makes use of the patented technique. Obviously it would be somewhat FOOLISH for Ford to have such a patent but yet not apply it.
I can loose traction when I apply the brakes! but its never happened in my recollection, without the brakes being applied.
When I enter a corner, I slow and apply brakes with the vehicle going STRAGHT.... When I reach the point where I am to turn, I actually have to apply the gas slightly (because I'm going so slow other wise the car would stop in the intersection) and the FWD pulls me around. Doing this I've stayed out of the ditch for 22 years.
If you do that in a RWD you'll find its difficult to control the vechicle because you have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from braking loose.
So, on my RWD I have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from breaking loose....
Yet on your FWD wherein you're relying on ONLY the traction co-efficient of those front tires to "absorb" the lateral, "turning" forces and the forward motion torque you believe you wouldn't need to "feather" the gas even more than I.....
Is "plowing"/understearing in a FWD vehicle somehow less life threatening than skidding/overstearing in a RWD car..??
In a RWD you drive DIFFERENTLY than a FWD. Its not a matter of deadly or dangerous, its a matter of KNOWING the handling characteristics of your vehicle in bad conditions and responding to them.
Again, I simply could not agree more.
Even when going on the freeway, engine braking has yet to cause me to loose traction when I've pulled my foot off the gas. Engine braking just isn't that much of a "drag" on the wheels to cause a problem in my experience, at least not when driving reasonable speeds for the road conditions.
Perhaps if I was driving 70MPH plus and I pulled my foot off the accelerator, I would experience the effect... but I would argue the dangerous component of such a situation is the idiot behind the wheel going 70MPH on ICE, not the FWD vehicle.
I do know about black ice... I've encountered it, but I drive reasonably... perhaps thats why on bad roads I'm always being passed by everyone.
Honestly... I've been on some real sheets of ice... I have yet, in 22 years of experience, to have ever had engine braking,
or in 3 years of regenerative braking, cause my FWD vehicle to loose traction when I've taken my foot off the pedal.
Ford has a US patent that involves this very issue. The patented technique calls for the lessening, substantially so, of regenerative braking capability as the OAT declines to and below freezing. The same patent designates that regenerative braking along with actual brake application is to be instantly disabled upon ABS activation, "triggering".
As some have pointed out I cannot attest to the fact that Ford actually makes use of the patented technique. Obviously it would be somewhat FOOLISH for Ford to have such a patent but yet not apply it.
I can loose traction when I apply the brakes! but its never happened in my recollection, without the brakes being applied.
When I enter a corner, I slow and apply brakes with the vehicle going STRAGHT.... When I reach the point where I am to turn, I actually have to apply the gas slightly (because I'm going so slow other wise the car would stop in the intersection) and the FWD pulls me around. Doing this I've stayed out of the ditch for 22 years.
If you do that in a RWD you'll find its difficult to control the vechicle because you have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from braking loose.
So, on my RWD I have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from breaking loose....
Yet on your FWD wherein you're relying on ONLY the traction co-efficient of those front tires to "absorb" the lateral, "turning" forces and the forward motion torque you believe you wouldn't need to "feather" the gas even more than I.....
Is "plowing"/understearing in a FWD vehicle somehow less life threatening than skidding/overstearing in a RWD car..??
In a RWD you drive DIFFERENTLY than a FWD. Its not a matter of deadly or dangerous, its a matter of KNOWING the handling characteristics of your vehicle in bad conditions and responding to them.
Again, I simply could not agree more.
Even when going on the freeway, engine braking has yet to cause me to loose traction when I've pulled my foot off the gas. Engine braking just isn't that much of a "drag" on the wheels to cause a problem in my experience, at least not when driving reasonable speeds for the road conditions.
Perhaps if I was driving 70MPH plus and I pulled my foot off the accelerator, I would experience the effect... but I would argue the dangerous component of such a situation is the idiot behind the wheel going 70MPH on ICE, not the FWD vehicle.
I do know about black ice... I've encountered it, but I drive reasonably... perhaps thats why on bad roads I'm always being passed by everyone.
I guess I've just not been that lucky
#22
01-04-2009, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: 4wd feh quick question
I guess I just feel you overstate the situation....
Honestly... I've been on some real sheets of ice... I have yet, in 22 years of experience, to have ever had engine braking, or in 3 years of regenerative braking, cause my FWD vehicle to loose traction when I've taken my foot off the pedal. I can loose traction when I apply the brakes! but its never happened in my recollection, without the brakes being applied.
When I enter a corner, I slow and apply brakes with the vehicle going STRAGHT.... When I reach the point where I am to turn, I actually have to apply the gas slightly (because I'm going so slow other wise the car would stop in the intersection) and the FWD pulls me around. Doing this I've stayed out of the ditch for 22 years. If you do that in a RWD you'll find its difficult to control the vechicle because you have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from braking loose. In a RWD you drive DIFFERENTLY than a FWD. Its not a matter of deadly or dangerous,
its a matter of KNOWING the handling characteristics of your vehicle in bad conditions and responding to them.
And THAT, my dear friend, is what "this" discussion is all about, education, KNOWING the handling charactoristics......
Even when going on the freeway, engine braking has yet to cause me to loose traction when I've pulled my foot off the gas.
The point of the AAA information/advisory is to forewarn drivers that once you lose directional control it is best to remove engine braking by shifting into neutral, not that engine braking is or was the initial cause of the loss of directional control.
Engine braking just isn't that much of a "drag" on the wheels to cause a problem in my experience, at least not when driving reasonable speeds for the road conditions.
Perhaps if I was driving 70MPH plus and I pulled my foot off the accelerator, I would experience the effect... but I would argue the dangerous component of such a situation is the idiot behind the wheel going 70MPH on ICE, not the FWD vehicle.
I do know about black ice... I've encountered it, but I drive reasonably... perhaps thats why on bad roads I'm always being passed by everyone.
Honestly... I've been on some real sheets of ice... I have yet, in 22 years of experience, to have ever had engine braking, or in 3 years of regenerative braking, cause my FWD vehicle to loose traction when I've taken my foot off the pedal. I can loose traction when I apply the brakes! but its never happened in my recollection, without the brakes being applied.
When I enter a corner, I slow and apply brakes with the vehicle going STRAGHT.... When I reach the point where I am to turn, I actually have to apply the gas slightly (because I'm going so slow other wise the car would stop in the intersection) and the FWD pulls me around. Doing this I've stayed out of the ditch for 22 years. If you do that in a RWD you'll find its difficult to control the vechicle because you have to feather the gas so much while turning to prevent the back end from braking loose. In a RWD you drive DIFFERENTLY than a FWD. Its not a matter of deadly or dangerous,
its a matter of KNOWING the handling characteristics of your vehicle in bad conditions and responding to them.
And THAT, my dear friend, is what "this" discussion is all about, education, KNOWING the handling charactoristics......
Even when going on the freeway, engine braking has yet to cause me to loose traction when I've pulled my foot off the gas.
The point of the AAA information/advisory is to forewarn drivers that once you lose directional control it is best to remove engine braking by shifting into neutral, not that engine braking is or was the initial cause of the loss of directional control.
Engine braking just isn't that much of a "drag" on the wheels to cause a problem in my experience, at least not when driving reasonable speeds for the road conditions.
Perhaps if I was driving 70MPH plus and I pulled my foot off the accelerator, I would experience the effect... but I would argue the dangerous component of such a situation is the idiot behind the wheel going 70MPH on ICE, not the FWD vehicle.
I do know about black ice... I've encountered it, but I drive reasonably... perhaps thats why on bad roads I'm always being passed by everyone.
#23
01-05-2009, 06:37 AM
Re: 4wd feh quick question
Since April 2008, I have been reviewing/reading the GreenHybrid Escape/Mariner forum several times weekly. I have come to learn that postings by Williard West are mostly about creating "F.U.D." that is "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" about ownership and use of an Escape/Mariner/Tribute. He is also very often off topic and extremely confusing. So I would strongly urge (as others here have) to IGNORE his postings. Personally, I wish he would keep his comments reserved for the Prius forum where he may have some insight.
#24
01-05-2009, 10:52 AM
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Re: 4wd feh quick question
Since April 2008, I have been reviewing/reading the GreenHybrid Escape/Mariner forum several times weekly. I have come to learn that postings by Williard (Willard, no second "i") West are mostly about creating "F.U.D." that is "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" about ownership and use of an Escape/Mariner/Tribute. He is also very often off topic and extremely confusing. So I would strongly urge (as others here have) to IGNORE his postings. Personally, I wish he would keep his comments reserved for the Prius forum where he may have some insight.
And that's the way it is today with the automotive manufacturers and dealers. THEIR job is to tell you the GOOD stuff and they seemingly have NO motivation to be "nice guys", in my experience they, collective "they", do their very best to even HIDE information, IMPORTANT information, from their buying public.
So yes, I have set out to help fill that void.
But there are accolades to be made.
Ford, for the FWD/MMH/Tribute. Instead of going after the "boy-racer" market with HSD as did Toyota/Lexus with 0-60 focus on the HH, RX400h, GSh, LSh. Now that the MMH has VSC(PSM) I am more tempted than ever.
Make the next step, adapt the MMH's HSD to the CX-7 and I'll write a check. Even better, license the SH-AWD system for the hybrid CX-7.
#25
01-05-2009, 01:58 PM
Re: 4wd feh quick question
I long ago learned to simply ignore willard as he likes to spend more time here on the FEH forums then he does on the Prius ones. I simply do not read his posts and choose to read those of folks who have actual experience with the FEH. For example, this thread is asking questions regarding FEH experiences and he has clearly noted that he is using the experience of his son on his non-hybrid FE. Read and post at your own peril 
Last edited by Green Lantern; 01-08-2009 at 04:56 AM.
#26
01-05-2009, 03:59 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: 4wd feh quick question
I long ago learned to simply ignore willard as he likes to spend more time here on the FEH forums then he does on the Prius ones. I simply do not read his posts and choose to read those of folks who have actual experience with the FEH. For example, this thread is asking questions regarding FEH experiences and he has clearly noted that he is using the experience of his son on his non-hybrid FE. Read and post at your own peril
If so HOW do you decide when to buy a newly introduced model, or do you simply rely on those that blindly buy and then you rely on their "word" about the product. Or do you rely on information from folks like myself that do a thorough RESEARCH of the product before purchasing.
How many owners, might you think or guess, purchased the vehicle based on information available to them regardless of origin source, vs just blindly purchasing, putting their faith in the saleperson/dealer/manufacturer..??
How do you, personally, research the vehicle stats, history, before purchasing, not BLINDLY, I would bet.
#29
01-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Re: 4wd feh quick question
Yes Dullard you caught me. I spent my hard earned money blindly with no research given. What a complete joke you are. No you dumba$$, I did my research, drove vehicles and spoke with people that ACTUALLY drove FEH/MMH vehicles. Toyota Prius' are fine vehicles and if I was looking to buy one I might have actually spoken with you. Heck, my mother drives a TCH but I did not talk to her about her views/opinion of the FEH.
In my opinion you could care less about anything anyone else ever says. You have this need to voice your opinion and tell others how much you know or shoot holes in things they say because it fills some void in your pathetic life. I truly feel sorry for you but I feel even more sorry for anyone that has to personally put up with your sorry self.
Please do everyone a favor and go hang out in the Prius forum. If and when you ever own a FEH or MMH (and no, your son's non-hybrid is not a FEH) then feel free to come back and tell us all the things you think Ford has done wrong and bless us with your infinite wisdom. From what I can see here no one gives a **** about your opinion on our wonderful FEH/MMH vehicles.
In my opinion you could care less about anything anyone else ever says. You have this need to voice your opinion and tell others how much you know or shoot holes in things they say because it fills some void in your pathetic life. I truly feel sorry for you but I feel even more sorry for anyone that has to personally put up with your sorry self.
Please do everyone a favor and go hang out in the Prius forum. If and when you ever own a FEH or MMH (and no, your son's non-hybrid is not a FEH) then feel free to come back and tell us all the things you think Ford has done wrong and bless us with your infinite wisdom. From what I can see here no one gives a **** about your opinion on our wonderful FEH/MMH vehicles.
