Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

It has been mentioned that by blocking airflow to the radiator in cold weather, FE will increase.
What's the best and safest way to do that?

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

From my earlier post titled Elegant Radiator Block?

"The radiator is roughly 16" high by 25" wide. I cut two pieces of cardboard each 8" by 25". On one piece I attached a foot long length of 1/8" nylon cord to both two corners on one long side. I removed the two top attaching bolts from the grill and loosened the hood release lever enough to rotate the lever out of the way. With the grill loose, one can lower the cardboard pieces to the bottom of the radiator opening. I threaded the two ropes through an existing oval hole on each side at the top of the grille.

So the nominal operating position for cold weather is to have the bottom half covered by both 6" pieces (one behind the other). When it gets colder, I can just pull up the ropes and have the top half covered also. I think I'll get some of the those rope clinchers at REI like are used on ski jackets, etc. In the meantime, I'll just tie the ropes. When it warms up, just lower the ropes to uncover the top half. Next spring, I'll pull out both pieces.

I just used ordinary cardboard, I will have to see if it warps in the weather. If so, I'll go to some kind of plastic sheet."


By the way this has been working extremely well and the cardboard has held up, though as stated, I'll replace it with plastic next year. The beauty of it is that if it warms suddenly, you can uncover half the radiator in seconds.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

If you're looking for something that looks better than a homemade solution, I purchased a set of grill screens from Cloud Rider and I really like them.

http://www.cloudrider.ca/screens_show.php?vhcl_id=5299

I've got the Winter Shield set which is almost solid, but there are other options that do not block as much air. They're pretty pricey - but look great on the vehicle.

I like these, not only because they look great, but also because they are actually 3 separate pieces - one in each grille opening - so if it starts to slightly warm up in winter for a few days you can take just one of them off to give you a little bit of air if you need to. And each one is held on by 4 screw clamps, so they go on and come off pretty easily with just a screwdriver.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

That looks great! I didn't see any Mercury models availables.:(

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Remember, the "radiator" not only cools the ICE, but is also provides very critical cooling to the electronics. I would be quite worried that blocking off air flow, could easily shorten the life of those electronics.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Walt, an interesting point. Any idea what electronics are water cooled and where are they located in the vehicle?

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

FIA WINTER COVERS!

These block the upper grille opening in a custom fit. Look at the photo section and you can see GPSman1 photo of this. These also have two flaps (velcro) that can open in seconds when needed or when the temperature rises. I have this and also have most of my lower grille opening is covered with a 15 inch long 1/8 inch thick painted plywood. My concern with cardboard is with it getting wet.

I have had no problems with radiator temperature (scanguage FwT has been holding 177-186 degrees). Took two long ski trips nearly 200 miles each, yesterday in mid 20's and today in low 30 degree temperatures with no issues.

If you look thru the lower grille opening you will see three radiators. One for the ICE. The second for the electronics. The third and smallest is for the hybrid battery.:)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

If you have a Scanguage you can monitor the temp of that cooling system too. It's MeC = Motor Electronics Coolant Temp. On the coldest days (0's and teens) this would run about mid to high 40's when the car was warmed up. With all my guards on and with temps getting up into the mid 30's, this still only hovered in the low to mid 50's. Now I've only had my Scanguage a couple of weeks, but I'm guessing that in the summer with 90 degree air running through the electronics radiator the MeC temps are going to be considerably higher than that :D

My personal theory is that in cold weather there's probably already enough cool air around the electronics to start with, so it doesn't really need to get rid of a whole lot of heat through the radiation system.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

IMHO, that is a very important distinction.

You have a way to monitor temps, and take corrective action (remove the air block) before the worst happens.

However, without something like a Scanguage, the driver is completely "blind" to the current temps of both the ICE and the electronics. That's quite a risk to take.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

So, does anyone have a protective device against wind/cold for a MMH?
So far I have just seen items for a FEH.

If I do get one, I will certainly get a Scangauge also.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Well, to each his own. But though my own monitoring I've found your worries posted here to be unfounded. In cold weather the electronics coolant temps never even gets close to being high enough to be concerned about. If you don't want grille blockers, fine - don't put them on your vehicle. But don't spread fear where there shouldn't be any.

But I'm not saying that when outdoor temps get above freezing you shouldn't start keeping an eye on things, though. When them temps get into the mid to high 30's then I start closely watching those gauges to make sure nothing is getting out of sorts, and usually when it hits 40 outside I start pulling off panels. Even at 40 the temps still stay within safe limits, but the blockers start to lose their effectiveness at that point so why take the chance?

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Where can I get a "skirt" or "bra" for a MMH to block the radiator?

(skirt/bra...wow, I need to find a woman!)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

The FIA winter guard that I use for my 2005 Escape fits the Mercury version. There is a thread on this site about it. There is a photo of it in the photo section of this site. Do a goggle search for FIA winter guards.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Thanks, I'll check it out.:thumbs_up

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

They do not list a winter guard for the 2008 FEH or MMH. I sent them an email, they replied they would notify me if/when available, so unless this happens, I'm doing the cardboard trick with two pieces of cardboard, and ropes, described by another poster. Apparently, the 08 redesign doesn’t permit the existing fIA covers from fitting the 08.

FYI, I monitor fWT on my SGII-Xg, but is that really a TRUE reading?? Is it from a real sensor, or another inferred value like catalytic converter? I kinda remember that someone said that Cyl Head Temp (CHT) from a real sensor, was used in conjunction with other sensors to develop the ICE coolant temp value (fWT) on the SGII? Does anybody know for sure please?

If this is an inferred/calculated value, I'm going to remove my cardboard at a cooler ambient air temp to be safe. Call me old fashioned, but I trust a sensor more when it comes to my engine & electronics coolant temps :)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

I have found that cardboard, or other material that is right up against the radiator of the car, to be most effective.

I now have the FIA cover ( like a bra ) that goes on the outside of the car, and it works only about 25% as well as the cardboard.

Seems there is enough air gap that things cool off pretty quick without the cardboard actually touching the radiator.

Also, with the FIA covers, there is plenty of air space for the fans to push/pull air though the radiator. As a result, you'd be OK with the FIA covers on in July..... In Las Vegas..... :( Also, next time you are in a big parking lot, look at several newer cars. Most have tiny grille slots, and some have virtually zero openings on the front of the car. Seems in most modern cars, the fans are expected to do all the cooling work.

What the FIA does a decent job of is... keeping heat in when I am parked with the engine block heater in use. When I'm in motion, I have found it to be of little help.

With the FIA cover, I climbed the Rockies, and over the Continental Divide west of Denver with 500 pounds of cargo in the car at 4000 RPM climbing 7% grades for dozens of miles at a time, and my engine temp never rose above the average 188-190'F. And yes, with the SG I monitored CHT, fWT, M/E and MG temp and none got even "warm".

This is a case where the cheaper, simpler, cardboard, is much better.
:lightbulb -John

P.S. Those same Mountain Grades with cardboard get my water temp to 205-210'F

P.P.S. I do believe the water temp is inferred from the CHT ( cylinder head temp ) but who cares? If one is cool, they both are cool, if one is hot, they both are hot. The water temp seems to be programmed with more "latency".

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Thanks John. Since I don't have the EBH (under consideration), and don't believe that the fIA bra covers would retain measurable heat during the 10 hrs at work (could be wrong there), my desire is to 'restrict' loss of cooling while in motion. So based on the evidence provided, cardboard it is. I have plenty, and can get plenty more

I suppose that fWT being derived/calculated from CHT and perhaps other inputs, should be reliable enough. Doing some other reading today that supports the same finding. I can't find a reference to an actual sensor. Guess Mr. Ford knows what he is doing. The FEH is a fine machine. Love the info I get from this site. :)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Just a note on the cardboard, most stores have a cardboard box dumpster out back. If you can get plastic coated or waxed cardboard and paint it black, it will be more durable and have a neater look. I wasn't sure how well it would work initially, so I just used ordinary cardboard and it shows through the grill - embarrassing my wife (as an engineer I have no style). Another alternative is to use acrylic sheeting (sold at big box home stores to replace window glass).

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Here is another point to consider with the FIA Winter Guard--it covers the upper but not the lower grille opening.
- Did/Does John have the lower grille opening covered when using the FIA winter guard? http://s241.photobucket.com/albums/f...rillcovers.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...rillcovers.jpg

-No question cardboard is cheaper.
-What is normal temperature range (Fwt) via scanguage-179-194? At what point does the temperature become too warm?

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Last year I used plain cardboard painted black.
It was "invisible" to the naked eye.
It helps that it is flexible when you slide it in.
It did not deteriorate when wet.
The radiator heat, and any wind, or fan air probably kept it dry, other than rain storms when parked. :lightbulb

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Is the cardboard placed on the outside of the grille?

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nicst47 (Post 156884)

Is the cardboard placed on the outside of the grille?

---

I can't speak for anybody else, but my 1st piece was on the inside of the grill, less noticeable/closer to the radiator, protected from the weather a lot better. At least on the 08 model, you have to loosen the hood release (10mm bolt), to slide the cardboard in. The previous Post #2, Travelover (Tom), who’s idea I am going to plagiarize for myself, describes how to do this with two 8" x 25" pieces of cardboard. (Thanks Tom, great idea).

I have no shame either when it comes to projects. Toooo many of my "Beta Tests" or "Proof of concepts" never make it past that stage. However, if we do get slushy snow this winter, cardboard, even the type coated and / or painted, may not hold up. So something like plexiglas, or other similar material, may become my 2nd generation cover -> or not. After 40 years of marriage, my wife just shakes her head :)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Inside the grille. You loosen the two bolts holding the plastic grille so the cardboard can be slid in between the grille and the radiator. I used zip ties (punch two holes in the cardboard) to hold the cardboard against the vertical grille bar. I had an issue with the cardboard getting wet on the lower portion and decided to try something else--fia winter guards.

I believe you need to cover the lower grille opening to have effective blockage. I am using painted 1/8 inch plywood held in place with zip ties and have had good results. I do not believe I will use this setup during July or the warmer months.:shade:

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

It was 62 degrees F here is DeeeTroit today. I just popped the hood and lowered the top piece of cardboard. Engine temp never went over 80 degrees Centigrade (175 F). One week ago it was zero degrees F here.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

It was nearly 70 here in L-Ville, KY today. Dang near that yesterday, and my first generation cardboard was one piece, so I removed it totally. Supposed to get to 72F tomorrow, then back to 50F Wednesday, and then possible snow, and abt 40 on Saturday. So the ability to quickly pull the one piece up or down is especially important in this changing Ohio valley climate.

Thanks for the suggestion of a two piece cover. I've already got the cardboard cutout, but wife is gone with the FEH (she thinks it's her car, and she is right).

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

If anything, all I was spreading was some reasonable caution. Though unintentional, if I instilled some fear into you instead, that it might be a good thing.

If I go back, you didn't seem to even think of what affect your monkeying around with the cooling system might have on the electronics, until I brought it up. That, I admit, does frighten me. The hybrid's systems are rather complex and there is always a risk that something could be overlooked, resulting in unexpected (bad) consequences.

You are right. To each his own. If you want to risk damage your own hybrid by experimenting without thinking it entirely through, but all means do. However, when you suggest others to do the same, it is no longer just your own.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

You make a good point Walt. Anyone reading these posts should realize that they take suggestions at their own risk.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

You're absolutely wrong by making that statement. When I first got my Scanguage fWT, SOC and MeC are the first Xgauge functions I programed and monitored (I didn't know about CHT yet), so I was keeping an eye on my electronics temps before this thread was even started.

I made the comment based on the data I had already seen. It appears that it is you that is making assumptions based on bad or no data.

By the way - today it got close to 40 degrees, and with all my blockers on the highest the MeC temp got was 68 in stop and go traffic. Back on the highway it dropped back down into the high 50's so air is still moving through the radiator even with it completely blocked.

This thing is built to keep the electronics cool in 100+ heat. If the coolant temp never even gets close to what the ambient temperature may be on the hottest days (which is what the coolant temp will eventually be on those days), I'm running well below what it will be on those days.

And experimenting and suggestions happen all the time here in these forums. Heck, that's probably why most of us are even here in these forums - to find more information to get a few more mpgs out of our vehicles. This is a prefect example of an exchange of that data we are finding due to these experiments.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Has anybody tried the plastic corrugated sings to block the rad.? I would think that it would melt at one point.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Cathy, not sure what you mean.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

I'm not sure of the melting point of those plastic sign boards.
If you find out, let us know. I think you would be ok. FYI the radiator area would rarely, pass 200 degrees. Under the hottest, most strenuous conditions, maybe 210. If it ever gets past 220, you probably have larger issues to worry about.
:shade: -John

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

There has been at least two post on this in the past three months. Cardboard is cheapest and works well if one uses zip ties. I have FIA Winter Guards--look in the photo section here for a view--but I don't know if they make one for the 2008 version. You need to cover the lower grille portion too. How much of the grille opening you cover is up to you but please use a scangauge II unit so you can monitor the radiator and electronic temperature readings.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Billy K.-Correct, FIA does NOT make grille covers for the 08 FEH. I have communicated with them, and they are suppossed to notify me via email if/when they become available. Meanwhile, I've improvised with everything but the kitchen sink to block the upper and lower, and cautiously monitoring with SGII, the CHT/fWT never get too high. In fact, 182F is the highest I've read anytime this winter.

As a matter of safety and common sense, and because my wife drives the car most of the time, I remove my makeshift covers when ambient is expected to be above 60F. But the nature of the FEH is it warms up to ~125 real quick, so you get creature comfort heat as quickly as any vehicle. But fears of overheating the ICE because of radiator block(s) are not real, at least in our location.

But I wish FIA made the RAD covers for the 08' model year. There's another vendor that I've seen here on GH that does, but they are advertised more like a bug screen than a winter cover, and cost abt 3X what the FIA costs. Spring/Summer is almost here, so my makeshift methods will work for next month.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

This may sound silly... but think about... I have been thinking about this a lot since this was my first Minnesota Winter. ( I've had 2 decades of Colorado Winter )

How in the world are you going to keep yourself warm in an EV?
It takes a lot of battery juice to run an electric heater.
If you think running the heat now decreases mileages... just wait till your range goes way down in an all EV.
The FEH is so dang light on gas... I really never ever have "waste heat" to send to the cabin in the city drives... not if I ever want to see EV, :cry: .

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

You are right. Heat and AC really suck down that battery in an EV. That is why the EV demo fleets were in warm climates like California.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

With everything but the kitchen sink blocking my 08 FEH upper/lower radiator grills, and using SGII to monitor fWT, I can easily and quickly lower fWT with controlled use of the cabin heater when OAT is > 50F if necessary. The cabin heater is a tremendous radiator that the driver has total control over.

The car just turned 5300 miles, and all the great FE gains from break-in that I've been reading about for months are just now showing up. I saw only slight improvement up to 3K miles, and slightly better improvement up to 5K, but lately, this FEH is getting real stingy on the fuel. Gentle throttle, hypermiling techniques, and smooth 5W20 Mobil 1 all work together.

Since owning, my wife has driven mostly, and she does fairly well, especially considering winter, but I have driven it the past two days, and intentionally used side streets as much as possible, which was 50% interstate @ 55-60mph, and 50% side streets at ~30mph or less, with normal stop lights/signs.

EV mode is Soooo much better now, and even with AWD, I can sneak up to 35mph in EV on flat ground, and get good range. I'm now a firm believer in the break-in period improvements. And getting that Tav reading up to 80F REALLY helps too. That big ol 330V battery pack, when warm, acts like a sponge. When Tav is < 60, the sponge doesn't hold as much. The more EV you do, the quicker it warms, the more current it can absorb, the longer you can stay in EV, etc.

So yesterday I averaged 38.x for the entire day's driving, and so far today 35.x. Many of you very seasoned hypermilers in milder climates will do better than this, but I'm very pleased. FEH ownership just gets better and better :)

I'm going to keep radiator blocked until 60F if I'm driving, and can closely monitor engine coolant and Motor Electronics Temperatures.

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

I agree with you Ken. It was -10'F this A.M. in Minnesota and I had pretty much normal EV range... with the cabin heat off. I had a 60'F battery from using the plug-in heater and was getting good regen and battery boost at this cold temp. Had to scrape frost off the inside windows though! ;) Remember this chart?

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi.../ColdAmps2.JPG

CarlD says the scale I used for the amps is a little off, but the shape of the graph is the same no matter the numbers on the left Y axis. -John

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Yep, I do remember that chart, and even if the numbers are skewed a bit in either direction, the relative slope indicates the pertinent data, that the battery, much like US, prefers milder temperatures, but not too hot. Since I haven't had the FEH in summer yet, I've not experienced the roll off on the high temp side. But the winter Blahs! are making me anxious :)

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

Your battery will be hottest from sitting in the sun. :sun:
During normal use, with the fans and occasional A/C the battery should not get past 95'F on it's own.

Now... if you start out with a hot parked car it can be over 120'F before you turn the key...

Re: Best/safest way to block air to radiator
 

My vote is for the Cloud-Rider "Classic - Winter Shield" as a bonus the "Mirror Stainless" adds more chrome to your front end :

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/sh...php?i=2976&c=8

A little pricey but it fits great. I posted some other pictures in the Share zone showing the snow & temperatures in my area.

Hugo