Don't Try This with a Prius or Why I'm Happy with 19 MPG

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  #71  
Old 08-07-2009, 07:19 PM
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Smile Re: Don't Try This with a Prius or Why I'm Happy with 19 MPG

Originally Posted by 08FEH
Actually John,

It IS illegal to exceed the GCVWR placarded on ANY vehicle.
But I agree that the truck is mechanically capable.

Sean
For the record, I looked it up.

Only 10 states prohibit exceeding the manufacturer's GCVRW.
Do at the risk of a ticket ONLY IN THESE 10 States:

AZ, CA, CT, FL, KY, LA, NE, NM, ND, UT.

The rest specify a limit of either 18,000 or 20,000 pounds per axle as the limit.

Most states require trailer brakes on trailers over 3,000 pounds.

NY requires brakes on trailers over 1000 pounds,
CA, ID over 1500 pounds
MS, OH, over 2000 pounds
RI, DE, over 4000 pounds
TX, over 4500 pounds
AK, over 5000 pounds

KS, KY, OR, MA, MO, UT, WY, NH, ND do not specify.
 
  #72  
Old 08-29-2009, 10:35 AM
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Default Inreresting phenomenon towing at 40 MPH

I've found an intersting phenomenon when towing.

Last weekend I towed 3200-3500 pounds over the Colorado Rockies which involved more than 50 miles of continuous steep grades. ( Yes, I have trailer brakes for the downhill parts. )

Grades were generally in the 4% to 5% range with 5 miles of 7% and shorter sections of 8% and 9%.

You've all probably noticed that the HV battery SOC does not change much during highway crusie conditions. Usually, it hovers around 53% without more than a 1% deviation either way.

Watching my SOC gauge, I noticed when towing up those hills, it did not change much either. most of the time

A few times, l looked at the SOC and it was 41%.
After a few ( hours ) of waching, here is what I noticed:

Generally, when not in EV mode, the battery is used only for acceleration... for boosts of power, and not for steady speed propultion.

When towing up steep slopes, RPM in the 4000 to 4500 range, speed in the 45 to 55 MPH range, the car behaves normally. Battery SOC hovers about 53%.

AS SOON AS SPEED DROPS to below about 45 MPH ( 40 MPH for sure ) then the 2005 FEH will use battery for propultion at steady speed, and draw the battery down to about 40-41% SOC. Then the car would hover here, until the road conditions became less steep, and speed rose above about 40 MPH, and then a gentle recharge began... even while going uphill towing.

Honda Insight owners hated the fact their cars would recharge via gasoline when going uphill, only to have a full battery incapable of regen when they reached the summit, hence many, incl. myself have installed an override system (MIMA) that at a push of a button, disables all regen, assist, or gas powered generation to when the driver feels is best. In the Insight, we can defer regen to only the downhill parts.


But a Honda is not like a Ford... The early Hondas would charge the SOC up to about 80%. Even when going uphill. Then not allow any regen at some point just barely above 80%. So there was not room to opportunity charge on the downhill. By Ford always stopping at 53%, it allows more room for charging on the downhill. However, Ford cuts the amount of regen allowed in ( about ) half when SOC is over 60%, and to about one-fourth as much when SOC is above 70% and to about 10% when SOC is at 80%. I've never found it to "shut off" and I've seen 88% and one other owner, I think maybe BillyK has seen 92% SOC.

-John
 
  #73  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Don't Try This with a Prius or Why I'm Happy with 19 MPG

68.6 is the highest SOC I have obtained during normal driving:
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I have obtained 92 SOC during my second hybrid battery recaliberation. MY first hybrid battery recaliberation resulted in a 82 SOC figure--I interruppted this process because it going on when I arrived at work and I needed to be at my work station.
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When I hauled a 1000 lb load of wood pellets up a 8% .7 mile uphill a few months ago:
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It seemed as if I could obtain battery assist if my SOC was greater than 53:
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  #74  
Old 08-29-2009, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Don't Try This with a Prius or Why I'm Happy with 19 MPG

These are consistent with what I have observed in engine ops.

I have noted that on a long descent the system goes into negative split mode if I leave the gear selector in L when the charge rate approaches zero. This then restarts the engine and runs RPM up to about 2500 and then uses the engine for compression braking.

Yet if I take it out of L as I see charge rate closing in on zero (putting it back in D) I can continue regenerative braking for a lot longer.

The decreasing charge rates observed are consistent with what I feel that programmers would set up in software to ensure that the charge rate does not overcharge the batteries and cause internal pressure to get too high.

Charge rates decline exponentially anyway since battery voltage rises as opposed to generator output voltage. Since the generator excitation is a constant (ie permanent magnet rotor) the software has to regulate MG1 output relative to MG2 to regulate battery charge rate.

When I was towing this summer I did not climb any hills at around 40 or below so I have nothing to add to the discussion on battery boost on climbing. When I did climb hills with the trailer it was around 55 or somewhat less but I don't believe it went as low as 40. I was paying close attention to the ammeter to ensure I wasn't discharging the battery during the climb.

(Smile) Its good to see that real world observed performance and the digital readout of that same performance match.
 
  #75  
Old 08-29-2009, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Don't Try This with a Prius or Why I'm Happy with 19 MPG

Bottom line: this is a capable platform for hauling & towing. I believe that Ford could legitimately rate its hauling and towing capacities at or very close to that of the standard drive train, 4 cylinder Escape.

I believe that Ford rated it very, very conservatively in this regard since it is a new drivetrain and they did not want to unnecessarily pay for costs they felt less than predictable in the real world.
 
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