Wayne, thanks for the five stars again on a very important subject. It appears that the AWD owners have a great feature for driving in conditions (snow and Ice) but like always, they pay for it at the pump. The AWD may not get to EV speeds like the FWD, but they still can drive EV. The rolling resistance problem may have been why many thought the recharge would not help mpg so why bother.

The not so great and not so powerful GaryG just shared all my tricks to help others improve MPG. If I'm not clear enough for people to understand, anyone out there help me out. Please try it and give me feedback. If it doesn't work for you, it may not work for others, let me and others know. If it works for you, please share. If the AWD owners thought the recharge was the problem. Try the "Fake Speed Shift" and "L" and other tricks. I'm sure it will help take them to 40mpg or better. These are new to all of us.

The reason I think 50mpg is a very real number for the FWD is because I know my FEH guages. For the past three days I've been driving like many of you in city driving, not just the beach roads. Had to run max A/C while driving my 73yr old Mother and 76yr old Father shopping and to lunch. I thought my mileage would crash, it didn't. I topped the tank off this afternoon with only 117.8 miles. The gas guage just hit the 3/4 line. All I could put in was 2.411 gallons which was on the high side where my test have shown in the past. This brought me 48.879mpg. Further testing will confirm my numbers but this is with about 30 miles of highway driving. This recharge hurdle is big for both the FWD and AWD.

GaryG

 

OK, one more AWD driver weighing in here. I don't have much experience in really cold temps yet, since my buggy was in the shop for the last two weeks, but I'll try to update in a couple more weeks, once I get my "hypermiler" legs back under me.

In warmer weather, my experience is pretty similar to "Green FEH". I got it to stay in EV on cruise at about 34-36 mph a few times, but if there was the *slightest* bit of uphill the ICE would come on. I can accelerate up to about 38 in EV, but it's VERY difficult, I have to accelerate VERY slowly and carefully on flat surfaces (it's much easier getting up to about 32). Downhill, it usually gets right up to 39-40 before the ICE comes on. As far as staying at a steady speed, I can usually hold a speed of up to 35, on a flat road, in EV, but again I have to be VERY careful about the accelerator; more than a real feather touch and the ICE comes on.

My impression from reading these forums is that some of the things suggested by FWD drivers don't work quite the same in the AWD. OTOH, Pravus Prime's numbers are pretty good for an AWD, so I guess it's possible. Most of my best numbers are from good terrain (flat or rolling hills), maintaining a pretty steady speed between 40 and 55 except going up to maybe 65 (OK, 70, but don't tell ) on big downhills, DWL, keeping a/c off, and double-tapping whenever I can do a stretch below 40 mph.

I can usually get the ICE to cut off using the "double tap"; shifting to "L" has not been so successful for me, and I noticed that it got worse (a shift to "L" was less likely to cut off the ICE) when the temp dropped below, say, 55-60F. I was just starting to experiment with the "shift to L just below 40 mph, wait for the tach "bump", shift back to "D" to coast technique, when the temps started down and it stopped working so well.

I do a bit of "fake shift" but haven't read up on the "fake speed shift" yet. Will do that soon. I also intend to try the technique for getting into EV/Cruise, by "drifting down" to the pre-set cruise speed; that sounded like a good one!

 

Gary it was also Me who gave you 5 stars on this subject

 

Well then thank you Phillip for the 5 stars.

Sweetbeet, sounds like you are doing as good as my FWD with top speed in EV and that's great to hear. When you use "L" to coast down in EV, bring your speed to at least 43mph. This gives the generator time to adjust to speed at 40mph so the shut down is right at 40mph. As far as the bump in the tach, I'm finding as long as the tach drops between 1,000 and 1,100 RPM's at 40mph, the shift back to drive at that point (with no gas pedal) will shut the ICE off within a second. In other words, you don't even have to wait for the bump.

My FWD will kick out of EV also on the slightest hills at 33mph and above. Thats why I like cruise because after the hill, you can speed up to 43mph and start again with the "L" and back to the preset cruise again. At 32mph EV cruise, I can make it through a slight hill if I'm lucky. Its pretty easy to traval roads in the slow lane with 45-50mph limits and when traffic clears just use "L" and coast down to 35-37mph in EV. Stay there till the battery drains or traffic catches up to you again. Use the "Fake Speed Shift" to recharge at 45-50mph, then repeat when traffic clears again. Its GREAT!

GaryG

 

Hi Gary G:

___Yep, I was the second to rate the thread … Viet Vet, nice job!

___Gary, I wish you would let your speed drop off a bit as your SoC drops before an ICE-restart. I know you love cruise but let her sag to an even slower speed and your FE will rise that much more after each cycle … Every bit counts, right

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

Ecel, your right as always and I try to do that when traffic permits and I'm by my self (you know what I mean). Time is a factor also because I'm already prolonging my trips staying off the freeway as much as posible. Watching the battery level on the energy screen really make you stay focused on FE. Finally got my wife to change the screen back when she changes the radio or CD. One other point is how hard do I want to work to get the most out of the FEH. Straining my mine has become second nature and habits are taking over so I can relax and enjoy the ride more. I get the feeling many here think its to much work and say why bother for a few mpg. Now that I've developed these habits, saving 10-15mpg is going help pay for my FEH and next Hybrid.

When you use the term SoC, I've always thought you were refurring to the battery level. Where did this term come from?

Are you still thinking of buying a FEH or MMH? Wish you would hurry up as we can't wait for some great feedback and pointers. Do you know if any of the other Hybrids shoot a charge from the wheels when you let off the gas like the FEH? Your combined knowledge of Hybrids will help FE for all of us with a FEH or MMH.

Again, thank for the stars -

GaryG

 

Sorry, but that's not going to work.

Cynthia has weather worse than I do, and I have found that L is of no use to me anymore for ICE off. The cold or the AWD or some combination of them renders the software ineffective. The engine will always come on, and sometimes never go off in L. As I've said, the double tap still works, and at this point, with the cold, snow, and wind, that's the only way to do it anymore at all.

With the cold, I'm finding it nearly impossible to reach 30 anymore in EV mode in terms of accelerating up to speed.

Thanks, but I'm not really sure what's so different about what I'm doing, compared to the rest of the AWDers. It's not like I've got an average that's far and beyond everyone elses.

Though really I've got a few factors working for me, including an 80 mile commute that's essentially downhill both ways (Heh, the miracle of two different routes.) and many decent flat roads as well, which may be all that's needed to make a difference.

However, it seems that as far as EVing to the extreme like Gary is suggesting may be out of the reach of us AWDers, for one factor or another, even in the summer now that I'm broken in I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't mimick it.

Then again, it may be an elevation, climate, and temp thing, unique (or close to it) to Florida and the other warmer lower states, and he couldn't reproduce it up here with us.



Yes, exactly.

I've always been fake shifting, a trick I used even on the '95 Explorer to get it to shift gears sooner, though I'll admit I've picked up the multiple fake shift to recharge the battery faster, and so far it seems to have worked rather well.

As I've said before, to me there's always that line between trying to get good FE and obsessing about it. The biggest difference is that one can make your vehicle fun, and the other makes it a chore and a handicap.

 

Yeah, it's 7 degrees F right now; might be up to 10 when I leave for work. Oh joy. Though as I recall the cold can be pretty brutal in Michigan, too.

But yesterday I was still able to accelerate up to 35, after the car got warmed up (which does take quite a while). Don't know what's holding you back, Rich - maybe headwind? It is quite a bit windy up there.

The biggest difference I've noticed in the cold is that the ICE just doesn't shut off as often or for as long, and during warm up, it runs at a higher RPM - in the summer, it warms at just a bit over 1500, but now its warming at close to 2000. Boy, sit at a red light idling at 2K and watch those numbers plummet! Also, it's now dark when I drive home at 5 p.m., so it's that much colder than it would be if the sun were still out (or at least hiding up there behind the perpetual clouds).

Also, when the engine comes on again after a shut off, it runs faster. It just seems to run faster all the time; it is rare to get it to run at 1000 rpm, and during the summer, it did that all the time.

I had a great commute to work yesterday, but lost ground coming home. I am having a struggle to keep the gauge at 30, so my actual mileage will probably be around 29 (or lower) when I finish the tank. (The last tank I couldn't post because the shop reset the trip meter, so I had no idea how many miles had been driven; I hadn't recorded the actual (total odometer or trip) mileage when I surrendered it. So I'm starting fresh, I filled up yesterday.)

Oh, geez, now I have one MORE reason to hate living up here. Great.

 

Following up on a couple things from a while ago…

1. For my previous tank (computer = 33.4 mpg, calculated = 32.3 mpg, temperature = 40’s F), I had tired to maximize the use of EV mode. With the cold, this was truly a challenge (HV battery getting too charged so ICE won’t turn off, etc.). So this tank, I changed strategy. I went more for coasting/idling and “driving with load” (DWL). Even though it was colder than the last tank, the ICE actually wanted to turn off more frequently with this strategy, and the HV battery didn’t seem to always be full. My current tank was (computer = 33.5 mpg, calculated = 32.5 mpg, temperature = low 30’s, high 20’s F). (My FE would have been better, but got stuck behind school buses too many times with acceleration from a standing start up hills.) So, between the last two tanks, it appears that for cold weather it is better to minimize EV use and try to maintain as uniform an ICE speed as possible.

2. Excel beat me to this point a couple of days ago, but another change that has improved FE is to take a slightly longer route out of work (adds about ½ mile). This is sufficient to warm the car up so that the ICE will turn off at the second traffic light of six, as well as the rest of them, just like it does in warm weather. This improves the FE about ½ mpg per trip leg. So trip planning (or re-planning) helps.

3. Someone had asked about winter vs. summer blend fuel. The gas station owner didn’t now about oxygenated fuels. I did not do a thorough search, but I believe Maryland has oxygenated fuels year round, and a slight increase in content for winter, so I don’t believe fuel change-over has effected my FE as much as the cold weather.

 

I have read GaryG’s descriptions of outstanding fuel economy with EV mode for some time now with skepticism. I just could not figure out what he was doing (or perhaps more accurately, not able to duplicate it). Well, I’ve got something to challenge him with now.

The end of my commute home has a gentle downhill segment that’s about 1-2 miles long. By gentle, I mean at 50 mph, you can maintain speed with a coast/idle about ½ the time, and the rest of the time a slight amount of gas will maintain speed. At this point in the trip, the HV battery is typically full.

Something I had not seen before happened the last two nights (so it’s repeatable). As I came over the crest of the hill to start the downhill segment, I let off the gas. The ICE went to 1,000 rpm and the system went into regeneration mode, but did not shut off because the vehicle speed was going 45-50 mph. When I added gas to go from regeneration to coast/idle, the EV mode came on. By this I mean the ICE was on but no energy was flowing from it. Energy was flowing from the HV battery to the motor to the wheels and the Navigation screen read EV mode. (However, there is not a lot of energy flow; it is the narrowest energy flow arrows.) I was able to go about a 1/4 mile in EV mode before a bump jostled my foot and it switched to hybrid mode. (It is very, very gas pedal position sensitive.)

There are several things that surprised my about this: I didn’t think the FEH would do EV mode about 40 mph and I certainly didn’t expect EV mode at this temperature. (On these two nights, the outside air temperature was in the low 30’s F.) I don’t think I have seen Gary describe his EV success above 40 mph, so I would certainly like to hear from him to see if he can duplicate this. If he can, then perhaps we have some common ground that will help me understand how he gets EV mode with cruise control (something I have never been able to get). Or, perhaps when it warms up here, I will be able to extend this to begin to get Gary’s EV performance.