Thanks, Gary. I see several things that may help me.

1. Favor regen when the SOC is low. I often use low instead of coasting down small hills. With Gary's experience, I should coast or use drive until the SOC is low.

2. Keep the RPM down and steady. A good plan, but may be suicide is SoCal.


3.

 

Your welcome David.

I don't like holding back traffic and I must break from the high FE driving like everyone else. We get drivers from all over the country here during the winter and summer from vacationers to seasonal visitors, so I know human behavior. I also lived all over the Bay Area and owned a business there in the foot hills of San Jose CA., so I know what that's like. Route planning on roads kind to the FEH FE is very important to me, but you can see, you never know what's happening on any road a head. This is why I take advantage of anything and everything I can, when I can. The bottom line is my average tank MPG which I constantly monitor on my SG11. Once you learn the techniques to hold 60mpg plus on the best routes possible, you find that maintaining 44-48mpg though out the tank is not that hard. I love my FEH because it gave me much better mileage than I ever expected when I ordered it.

Here is a link to see that torque curve (slide 13) I was talking about. From everything I've read to date, it is best to always stay under 2500rpm's.
http://www.nextenergy.org/cm/attach/...ns%20Panel.pdf

GaryG

 

Hills, and even the Rocky Mtns always INCREASE my MPG.

When my car was new, I figured it would get about 48 MPG at 48 miles per hour.
"48 at 48" is what I tell everyone, and that's easy to remember.

Now, 45,000 miles later, I wanted to see if this was still true.
I'm now in Minnesota farm country. On farm roads, the posted limit is 55 but you'll only pass one or two tractor in an hour, so you can set your own speed. I came into the state with a tank of 100% gas 0% ethanol. I set the Cruise Control to 48 miles per hour. I drove 17.9 down and 17.9 miles back on the same road. 35.8 miles round trip, all done within 1 hour, so the weather was the same. I had 47.9 MPG on the Nav and 47.5 MPG on the SG. Looks like "48 at 48" still holds true for my car. ( It's a tad less than 48 since I had to stop at my destination for 10 minutes, and then restart and accelerate back to 48 on the way home. )

Now, back at home in the rockies, in the foothills I have county roads with 55 miles per hour limits and many hills & curves with 35 miles per hour limits. So over a 40 mile trip, the average is probably very close to 48 miles per hour.

Uphill, 5000 feet to 8000 feet I get about 28-30 MPG.
Downhill, I get about 350 MPG. Just enough gas is burnt to keep the catalyist hot. So, more often than not, I get about 58 MPG for these round trips to the hills. A 10 MPG advantage for me in hills vs. flat.

It is true, if you don't race, you can get better MPG in hills and mountains, than in flat areas. But you have to pay attention to your car.
I always keep it to under 2400 RPM on the uphills ( possible under 55 miles per hour, not always possible at higher speeds ) and keep it at 40 MPH and under on the downhill coasts to allow the engine off. When I cannot go under 40 MPH, such as on Interstate 70, I have learned how to evoke fuel cut, and burn zero gas at 75 MPH. ( or any speed )

This works for me every time when the car is warmed to normal temperatures. This does not work when the car is cold.
To burn zero gas at high speed, let off the gas pedal and shift to "L".
Wait a few seconds until RPM revs up to 3500 to 4400 RPM.
Fuel is now cut.
Shift back to "D".
Do not touch the gas,
Regen is reduced to a low level, RPM drops to idle, and fuel remains cut.
Coast for as long as possible.
You may use the brake pedal to control speed at any time in fuel cut.

GaryG is no expert on driving in hills.
He also never reports that he used over 100 gallons of gas for "HybridFest". He lives in Jupiter, Florida, and had to get himself to Madison, WI for HybridFest. Where is the logic in that? I saved much more fuel than GaryG by not going. There was nothing new I could learn by attending, and there were "locals" there who could teach the newbies everything. It was pointless for me to attend. It occurs to me I helped the planet more by not going. Gary had "best MPG out of 3 drivers". Big deal. If you ask me, GaryG has nothing to be proud of. His poor self esteem must be the reason he brings that up that he beat 2 other drivers every chance he can. I have gotten 128 MPG in my FEH for some 40 mile sections. Big Deal. My lifetime results are below and speak for themselves.

FWIW, Gary's car has been in the shop for repairs 3 times that I know of... maybe more that I don't know of. Mine has been in the shop for a freon leak, and that's it. 45,500 miles and still strong. Still "48 at 48". -John

 

Well I don't have the kind of hills that you do john. I have been using the ICE to climb the small steep hills (250 ft) but because these are hills near rivers they tend to be steep on one side and gentle on the other side, not even enough to coast. So I try to ev down the gentle slope so I may go as far on the HVB as possible. This has greatly increased my EV distance. I try to climb the steep hills at 40 to 45 mph slowing at the crest to 39 to engage EV.

 

I would have loved to be able to attend Hybridfest, but could not afford a trip this summer. I've only had my FEH a year and I know I could have learned alot. I suspect I will still be learning for years to come. I know I'll be open to it.
-- Rick

 

Yeah, for me the whole cost/benefit ratio was too high.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have gotten anything out of it, just too little for it to be worth 2,000 miles of driving.

Mark, sounds like you have a good handle on things.
Once everyone knows how the car works, what to do with it will come naturally. -John

 

For the most part, I enjoyed reading this thread as I plan to drive through Missouri in a couple of weeks and could use some pointers for hills. Kind of surprised I saw this rubbish mixed in with a discussion on hills....

I've read just about every post in this forum and I get the fact that the John and Gary don't agree on most subjects, but this is uncalled for.

 

Wow John

Now I have to defend myself for going to Hybridfest, my FEH breaking down, using 100 gallons of gas?, having nothing to be proud of?, beating two drivers, and having poor self esteem?

The fact is, I was not going to go or drive my FEH 3,000 miles because of the time it would take me away from my family during hurricane season. The cost of fuel, food, lodging, and wear and tear on my FEH was a big factor also.

After I made my decision not to go, Debbie Katz offered me her FEH to drive in the MPG Challenge if she could ride along. Wayne Gerdes offered to pick me up and drop me off at the Airport, as well as a free room to stay in. My Wife offered me a round trip ticket for my birthday on July 21, which was the main day of the event.

I took no pleasure in "beating" Debbie Katz with her own vehicle, and still feel rotten about how that turned out. Debbie has the highest lifetime MPG record documented here and other forums.

The event was more about hybrid vehicles and the great mileage people can get out of them. Other than the picture of my MTE on this sig page, there are no official records of anyone getting 60mpg in a FWD FEH. Last year at Hybridfest, I think the FEH was pushed 43mpg during the Challenge and I just knew the FEH could do much better than that.

All the FEH owners can be proud (not just me) that they own the first SUV that has been proven to exceed 60mpg. I spend a lot of time here and other sites trying to help people improve their mileage, take care of their vehicles and help us all understand how it works.

GaryG

 

Someone else ( not Gary ) thought I made it sound like going to Hybridfest, or Gary's going to Hybridfest was pointless. That was not my intention, and I am sorry if I used a poor choice of words. All I was saying was it would have been pointless for ME to have gone to Hybridfest, and that Gary's round-trip airplane probably used 100 gallons of jet gas ( his portion of 10,000 gallons or whatever it would take for two cross-country trips in a large aircraft ) and his transportation if he was not driving took a lot of gas ( or equivalent ) to get him there.

I am encouraged by Gary's daily efforts, goals, and achievements, the ones he does day in and day out, but not a single 26 mile trip that carries such little weight. I'm pointing out that it was a specific, 26 mile trip and there were very few participants, nothing more. Also an "inconvienient truth" is some driving techniques put more wear & tear on the car than others. Everything in life is a trade off. More performance now vs. shorter lifespan later is just one option available to all. I will admit I have done some tests and experiemnts with my car that probably were not the best for it... but have not (yet) needed dealer service. ( knock on wood )

After all that, HILLS STILL HAVE POTENTIAL TO HELP YOUR MPG!

 

I visited a sister in Missouri nearly two months ago. The terrain certainly had plently of hills as found in the central portion of Pennsylvania (where I live). I noticed a decrease in gas milage while visiting my sister and while traveling thru Iowa. I thought it might of been due to a different gas formula-ethanol? You might try filling up outside of Missouri if you are only traveling thru the state.