Limited Slip on FWD
#11
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
I think you got that backwards. LSDs are fairly common in sporty front wheel drives. THe Mini, Civic R type, Sentra R type and mazda 3 series all have some type of LSDs (although most are just torsen types with only 25% lock up) to eliminate torque steer. Higher hp without an LSD causes torque steer.
I had a old 75 mini built for track use a few years ago and added an lsd to it. The handling improved dramatically over the open diff.
I had a old 75 mini built for track use a few years ago and added an lsd to it. The handling improved dramatically over the open diff.
Pardon me, but I'm quite sure, certain sure, that an LSD would exacerbate torque steer. Torque stear is the result of "unequal wrap-up" of the differing length of the left and right half-shafts. The shorter one, less "wrap-up", coupling more torque to "its" wheel/tire. The rotational, angular, position of the wheel attached to the longer halfshaft lagging the opposite wheel at higher torque levels.
Since this happens beyond, downstream as it were, of the control of the Torsen type LSD the LSD can clearly be of no aid and more likely a hindrance.
Last edited by wwest; 01-19-2008 at 11:29 AM.
#12
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
I am a former engineer on the trans...it is open diff and no, there are no limited slip options.
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
#14
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
I am a former engineer on the trans...it is open diff and no, there are no limited slip options.
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
#15
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
"...Higher HP without an LSD causes torque steer..."
Pardon me, but I'm quite sure, certain sure, that an LSD would exacerbate torque steer. Torque stear is the result of "unequal wrap-up" of the differing length of the left and right half-shafts. The shorter one, less "wrap-up", coupling more torque to "its" wheel/tire. The rotational, angular, position of the wheel attached to the longer halfshaft lagging the opposite wheel at higher torque levels.
Since this happens beyond, downstream as it were, of the control of the Torsen type LSD the LSD can clearly be of no aid and more likely a hindrance.
Pardon me, but I'm quite sure, certain sure, that an LSD would exacerbate torque steer. Torque stear is the result of "unequal wrap-up" of the differing length of the left and right half-shafts. The shorter one, less "wrap-up", coupling more torque to "its" wheel/tire. The rotational, angular, position of the wheel attached to the longer halfshaft lagging the opposite wheel at higher torque levels.
Since this happens beyond, downstream as it were, of the control of the Torsen type LSD the LSD can clearly be of no aid and more likely a hindrance.
I have a MINI S (with LSD) and I can assure you I have no torque steer. I can launch my car (in a straight line) WOT without puting my hands on the steering wheel.
#16
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
I am a former engineer on the trans...it is open diff and no, there are no limited slip options.
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
The AWD is VERY entertaining in the snow. In fact, the AWD hybrid might be a bit scary for the average driver since it understeers with power, then the clutches engage for AWD and send lots 'o torque to the rear wheels resulting in oversteer. Fun for 30 year old Mustang owners like myself. Maybe scary for people like my grandma.
Kicks ***!
Guess that also explains what I noticed once in L on ice when I let off the gas where it seemed the front wheels locked up & started to skid sideways until I tapped the brakes.
#17
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
Additionally torque stear "exhibits" at its worse in a hard accelerating tight turn.
And are you sure about that LSD? Seems odd, unless it's a "virtual" one.
Last edited by wwest; 01-25-2008 at 10:38 AM.
#18
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
Hehe... Yes I'm quite sure. It is an option that you can get and I have it. The mini S has plenty of torque on tap to test torque steer. It also helps that the half shaft on both sides are of equal length.
I don't know what you mean by virtual? Both of my wheels spin at the same speed under acceleration. My mini also has DSC and traction control but that has to do more with the braking system then the differential.
I don't know what you mean by virtual? Both of my wheels spin at the same speed under acceleration. My mini also has DSC and traction control but that has to do more with the braking system then the differential.
#19
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
Ah, that is it! As originally mentioned, torque steer is due to unequal half shafts.
#20
Re: Limited Slip on FWD
Now we need to find a FWD with LSD and unequal half shaft to see if this is true. ;-)