Long Slope Driving
#21
01-20-2006, 02:05 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Long Slope Driving
"
I would have to say no, it wouldn't. Like you said, this amount is above what the sensors can detect. What is likely to happen is, your MTE just will stay put, and not drop until it detects the tank level dropping. MTE 650 may stay MTE 650 for 100 miles before going down.
My point is NOT that people should be pouring every last drop into the FEH. My point is, MAYBE the computer FE number is more trustworthy than an individual fill-up, since individual fill-ups can varry quite a bit... no matter how hard you try to be consistant.
-JOHN
Originally Posted by GaryG
There does seem to be a space within the gas tank that gets filled at times and cannot be filled at other times. Normally, you can only put 2 1/2 gallons in at the 3/4 mark on the fuel gauge. When I get 100 miles at the 3/4 tank mark, I generally know I made around 40mpg at that point. If I'm at 115 miles at 3/4, I,m getting around 46mpg. I have got as much as 170 miles at the 3/4 mark which would be 68mpg, which is imposible for me at this time. I was at around 70 miles when the fuel tank gauge needle dropped off the full mark. If I get to 45-50 miles as the needle drops off the full mark and I'm at 115 miles at 3/4 tank, I'm usually getting 45-46 mpg at fill up."
All of which goes to show the needle gauge is just an estimate.
You can't count on it for accurate numbers.
We all know at 0 MTE, you have about 50 miles or more to go. What I think is happening is the computer sees that you burned 15 gallons of fuel and indicates there is 0 MTE. The fuel over the 15 gallons is gas thats above the tank sensor, a little over one gallon of gas. This would be the extra fuel we all normally get at a fill up. Now, if you add that amount of fuel that fills the other area (air pocket) that John is talking about, you get over the 15 gallons of fuel stated in the manual.
I think the 15 gallon statement from the Manufacturer means the average person, on an average fill-up will have 15 gallons of useable gasoline.
I'v parked on angles, shaken the FEH and always add gas slowly to get a correct reading on MPG. Averaging the tanks is always required. In my opinion, it's not 3 gallons more with a total of 18 gallons as John feels. Based on my mileage and fill ups, I put it at 16.5 - 17 gallons max or 1 1/12 to 2 gallons over the 15 gallons.
Maybe each tank is a bit different. Gary's can hold 17gal, mine 18gal.
Again, not really an issue, unless you expect to be 700 miles from a gas station at some point.
In the FEH manuals and other documents, I have read that there is a vapor area that sensors monitor and can produce trouble codes if the overfill doesn't clear after a certain time.
I agree, there may be something like that...
Not sure if this is going to increase your MTE reading.
GaryG
All of which goes to show the needle gauge is just an estimate.
You can't count on it for accurate numbers.
We all know at 0 MTE, you have about 50 miles or more to go. What I think is happening is the computer sees that you burned 15 gallons of fuel and indicates there is 0 MTE. The fuel over the 15 gallons is gas thats above the tank sensor, a little over one gallon of gas. This would be the extra fuel we all normally get at a fill up. Now, if you add that amount of fuel that fills the other area (air pocket) that John is talking about, you get over the 15 gallons of fuel stated in the manual.
I think the 15 gallon statement from the Manufacturer means the average person, on an average fill-up will have 15 gallons of useable gasoline.
I'v parked on angles, shaken the FEH and always add gas slowly to get a correct reading on MPG. Averaging the tanks is always required. In my opinion, it's not 3 gallons more with a total of 18 gallons as John feels. Based on my mileage and fill ups, I put it at 16.5 - 17 gallons max or 1 1/12 to 2 gallons over the 15 gallons.
Maybe each tank is a bit different. Gary's can hold 17gal, mine 18gal.
Again, not really an issue, unless you expect to be 700 miles from a gas station at some point.
In the FEH manuals and other documents, I have read that there is a vapor area that sensors monitor and can produce trouble codes if the overfill doesn't clear after a certain time.
I agree, there may be something like that...
Not sure if this is going to increase your MTE reading.
GaryG
My point is NOT that people should be pouring every last drop into the FEH. My point is, MAYBE the computer FE number is more trustworthy than an individual fill-up, since individual fill-ups can varry quite a bit... no matter how hard you try to be consistant.
-JOHN
#22
01-20-2006, 02:35 PM
Re: Long Slope Driving
My MTE ALWAYS begins to drop as I put on miles. There maybe increases and decreases to that fill up number later depending on my driving. Many times on a climbing MTE, I'll get a higher reading jumping as much as 40 miles above the original MTE number at fill up. This has happen with the MTE jumping more than 2 times during a tank. If my mpg average is dropping, so does the MTE readings jump the other way, down.
You have had a MTE freeze? You may have a problem John.
GaryG
You have had a MTE freeze? You may have a problem John.
GaryG
#23
01-20-2006, 03:05 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Long Slope Driving
No. Not literally.
Like you, I've had it drop a few miles, then jump back up when either my FE rate increases, or it does not detect a drop in tank level. In essence, standing still.
I've not gone more than a few miles on my 18 gallon over-fill.
Even though I put in 18 gallons, the MTE was 550 since my previous MPG was not spectacular. I havn't done it yet, but I bet in 100 miles, it will still be 550 or close.
-John
Like you, I've had it drop a few miles, then jump back up when either my FE rate increases, or it does not detect a drop in tank level. In essence, standing still.
I've not gone more than a few miles on my 18 gallon over-fill.
Even though I put in 18 gallons, the MTE was 550 since my previous MPG was not spectacular. I havn't done it yet, but I bet in 100 miles, it will still be 550 or close.
-John
#24
01-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Re: Long Slope Driving
Maybe we should start a new thread, about gas tank anomolies...
Well, I've had a bit of both, myself. I've made 45 mile trips, which the MTE display drops 10 miles over the course of the entire trip, (I believe this is due to a rising MPG and recalculations and usage mixing) and I've had the MTE drop when in EV mode (which always makes me wonder, just a 1 mile drop as if the ICE were on), and I've had many tanks start out with a high MTE, 550, and I end up at 490 with 0 MTE.
Well, I've had a bit of both, myself. I've made 45 mile trips, which the MTE display drops 10 miles over the course of the entire trip, (I believe this is due to a rising MPG and recalculations and usage mixing) and I've had the MTE drop when in EV mode (which always makes me wonder, just a 1 mile drop as if the ICE were on), and I've had many tanks start out with a high MTE, 550, and I end up at 490 with 0 MTE.
Last edited by Pravus Prime; 01-20-2006 at 04:57 PM.
#25
01-21-2006, 09:50 AM
Re: Long Slope Driving
Rich, you get better mileage than most FWD models. Willing to bet you will be over 40mpg when things warm up for you. When you see 550 MTE numbers, that tells me your consistant in your high averages.
Wish someone with a AWD would do the coasting test in "D" and compare it with an "N" coast. Even starting to see other hybrid sites talking about using "N" now. For those who live in hill country, this little switch can make a big difference. Xcel as started something again for us Ford Hybrid owner's. Would also like to see a short trip with a AWD EV/ICE charge repeat EV to compare my FWD numbers with. If I remember, you have the nav sys to monitor the battery.
Knowing now what the max (near the Max anyway) is for EV/ICE charge repeat, we can see the max numbers for the Pulse and Glide to compare to. One thing is for sure, the fake shift will play a part in recharging the battery because "N" coasting drains it down fast also. The power steering and other battery operated devices take more than I realized in "N" coasting.
It would be nice to have the FEH double EPA numbers like the Prius some day. Gas prices are headed back up it looks like and we can all say, thank god we own a hybrid. Just had a refill on my LPG tank for my spa heater at $3.71 a gallon here. A 250 gallon tank fill is close to $700.00. Thinking of getting an electric or solar heater to slowly bring the temp. up and kick the gas on to heat it to the upper limits. Do you think I'll have the first hybrid spa heater? It's about a 8-10 person built in spa (1,000 gal) so you can compare it to a gas hog right now.
Anyway, great numbers there Rich!
GaryG
Wish someone with a AWD would do the coasting test in "D" and compare it with an "N" coast. Even starting to see other hybrid sites talking about using "N" now. For those who live in hill country, this little switch can make a big difference. Xcel as started something again for us Ford Hybrid owner's. Would also like to see a short trip with a AWD EV/ICE charge repeat EV to compare my FWD numbers with. If I remember, you have the nav sys to monitor the battery.
Knowing now what the max (near the Max anyway) is for EV/ICE charge repeat, we can see the max numbers for the Pulse and Glide to compare to. One thing is for sure, the fake shift will play a part in recharging the battery because "N" coasting drains it down fast also. The power steering and other battery operated devices take more than I realized in "N" coasting.
It would be nice to have the FEH double EPA numbers like the Prius some day. Gas prices are headed back up it looks like and we can all say, thank god we own a hybrid. Just had a refill on my LPG tank for my spa heater at $3.71 a gallon here. A 250 gallon tank fill is close to $700.00. Thinking of getting an electric or solar heater to slowly bring the temp. up and kick the gas on to heat it to the upper limits. Do you think I'll have the first hybrid spa heater? It's about a 8-10 person built in spa (1,000 gal) so you can compare it to a gas hog right now.
Anyway, great numbers there Rich!
GaryG
#26
01-22-2006, 11:44 PM
Re: Long Slope Driving
Originally Posted by GaryG
Rich, you get better mileage than most FWD models. Willing to bet you will be over 40mpg when things warm up for you. When you see 550 MTE numbers, that tells me your consistant in your high averages.
LOL, thanks. I am indeed very much looking forward to the warm weather, and back to getting 34+ MPG tanks; I was so annoyed when my string of 34+ tanks suddenly vanished as winter hit. Personally, I doubt that I'll hit 40, at least for now, but then again, I never thought I'd hit 34 either. My own personal goal is over 35, I've been so close so many times. (34.7 is my best so far)
With that comes that slight twinge that makes me wonder how I'd be doing in a FWD, but even with the sporadic snow, I've been glad I have AWD on a few occasions.
Wish someone with a AWD would do the coasting test in "D" and compare it with an "N" coast. Even starting to see other hybrid sites talking about using "N" now. For those who live in hill country, this little switch can make a big difference. Xcel as started something again for us Ford Hybrid owner's. Would also like to see a short trip with a AWD EV/ICE charge repeat EV to compare my FWD numbers with. If I remember, you have the nav sys to monitor the battery.
It would be nice to have the FEH double EPA numbers like the Prius some day. Gas prices are headed back up it looks like and we can all say, thank god we own a hybrid. Just had a refill on my LPG tank for my spa heater at $3.71 a gallon here. A 250 gallon tank fill is close to $700.00. Thinking of getting an electric or solar heater to slowly bring the temp. up and kick the gas on to heat it to the upper limits. Do you think I'll have the first hybrid spa heater? It's about a 8-10 person built in spa (1,000 gal) so you can compare it to a gas hog right now.
Anyway, great numbers there Rich!
GaryG
Anyway, great numbers there Rich!
GaryG
Somehow, I can just see you in three years or so having a hybrid everything.
(Even a hybrid toothbrush.)Thanks, part of me always wanted to hide my techniques and then be the best Escape driver around.
Last edited by Pravus Prime; 01-22-2006 at 11:48 PM.
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