Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
#11
10-01-2008, 08:13 PM
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
If you tow something, most likely you are going to back the trailer into a space or something. When you do that you are pushing it with a 95HP traction motor (I think thats the rating). Even with the engine on to provide full current, you are still using that traction motor to push the vehicle not the ICE... its turning the generator to give you extra current but thats it.
I think the limitation is due to that... they didn't want to have to explain to a user... "you can tow 2500lbs in forward but in reverse its only 1000lbs" only to have a user try it anyway and fry the traction motor.
Remember one of the moments you are going to have to apply the most torque to something is to get it rolling... when you are backing something up and trying to steer you usually end up starting and stopping... or nearly doing so... many times. I think one of the highest workout loads that eCVT is going to encounter when towing is pushing the trailer in reverse.
My guess anyway....
Last edited by TeeSter; 10-01-2008 at 08:15 PM.
#12
10-06-2008, 06:40 PM
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
For those of you familiar, I just towed a 2000 pound trailer with a horrendous coefficient of drag up the Continental Divide. I will say the wind is more of an issue than the weight.
I took I70 west from Denver up and over, through the Eisenhower Tunnel, and then took Highway 91 from Copper Mountain up to Leadville. ( 5000 ft to 11,300 ft elevation )
Highway 91 has SUSTAINED 7% and 8% grades for about 12 miles.
Interstate 70 has SUSTAINED 5% and 6% grades for miles and miles.
On the 5% I was able to sustain 60 miles per hour at 4000 RPM.
On the 6% I was able to sustain 50 MPH at 4000 RPM.
On the 8% I was able to sustain 40 MPH at 4000 RPM.
The car's redline is 6000 RPM, and I could have pushed it harder, but chose not to.
ScanGauge was saying I was making about 70 Horsepower at 4000 RPM.
SG does not count the electric boost, just engine horsepower.
Outside air was in the 50's and then 40's at the top of the Mountain Pass.
Water temp never got above 204'F
eCVT temp never got above 180'F
Generator Temp never got above 212'F.
I forget what the Traction Motor temp was, but it was not as high as the generator.
M/E coolent water temp stayed about 86'F the whole time. That's right, 86'F, not 186!
Sure, I burned a lot of fuel uphill, but used very little downhill.
At 11,000 feet, there is about 25% less wind resistance.
At 5,000 feet, there is about 10% less wind resistance than sea level.
For a 360 mile round-trip this time, with even MORE and STEEPER hills than last time, my MPG INCREASED.
For 360 miles ( 180 up, 180 down ) I averaged 24.9 MPG.
Show me a diesel that will beat that when towing!
I took I70 west from Denver up and over, through the Eisenhower Tunnel, and then took Highway 91 from Copper Mountain up to Leadville. ( 5000 ft to 11,300 ft elevation )
Highway 91 has SUSTAINED 7% and 8% grades for about 12 miles.
Interstate 70 has SUSTAINED 5% and 6% grades for miles and miles.
On the 5% I was able to sustain 60 miles per hour at 4000 RPM.
On the 6% I was able to sustain 50 MPH at 4000 RPM.
On the 8% I was able to sustain 40 MPH at 4000 RPM.
The car's redline is 6000 RPM, and I could have pushed it harder, but chose not to.
ScanGauge was saying I was making about 70 Horsepower at 4000 RPM.
SG does not count the electric boost, just engine horsepower.
Outside air was in the 50's and then 40's at the top of the Mountain Pass.
Water temp never got above 204'F
eCVT temp never got above 180'F
Generator Temp never got above 212'F.
I forget what the Traction Motor temp was, but it was not as high as the generator.
M/E coolent water temp stayed about 86'F the whole time. That's right, 86'F, not 186!
Sure, I burned a lot of fuel uphill, but used very little downhill.
At 11,000 feet, there is about 25% less wind resistance.
At 5,000 feet, there is about 10% less wind resistance than sea level.
For a 360 mile round-trip this time, with even MORE and STEEPER hills than last time, my MPG INCREASED.
For 360 miles ( 180 up, 180 down ) I averaged 24.9 MPG.
Show me a diesel that will beat that when towing!
Last edited by gpsman1; 10-06-2008 at 06:44 PM.
#13
08-27-2019, 10:21 AM
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
I recently installed a "Hidden Hitch" with a traditional 2" ball.
The hitch is rated for 3500 pounds I think, and the ball, 5,000
pounds.
I towed an 800 pound ( empty ) trailer with 1200 pounds of cargo on
it.
The trailer is 8 feet x 12 feet x 8 feet high. Much taller than the
FEH. So I guess the frontal cross area is 8'x 8'.
The frontal area is perfectly vertical and square.
No helpful aerodynamics whatsoever.
I was very careful not to exceed 60 miles per hour.
But I easily could have.
I did mostly highway driving for 700 miles.
Over half of those miles included Colorado Mountains.
Some roads exceeded 6% grade for short sections.
Some roads were 3-4% for dozens of miles.
I watched everything closely with a ScanGauge.
Outside air was from the 40's to 70's.
NOTHING in the car got hot.
The water temp = Normal to plus 10 degrees of normal the whole time.
The motor and electronics temperatures were all normal.
The car ran at higher RPM, as expected, but only mildly so.
The car used MUCH more battery assist than normal.
The car was using battery assist for every little camel hump on the
highway. It usually doesn't do that.
My battery pack was getting warm enough to requrie A/C ( 86'F ) on
the highway, but just barely, and the A/C quickly cooled the pack to
the mid-70's.
The first 350 miles ( one way ) I ran 50/50 ethanol and gas.
Ethanol is known to produce more horsepower, and I figured I could
use it. (I had previously used ethanol without problems so I knew in
advance my car could handle it.) I went from 4700 ft to 8200 ft
elevation, mostly at 50 to 60 MPH with the trailer in tow.
MPG = about 21.5 MPG with 50% ethanol in the tank.
The way home ( 350 miles ) and downhill ( 8200ft to 4700ft ) I had to
use regular E10 gas. With the same trailer in tow, I got about 23.5
to 24 MPG.
The FEH ran at 4,000 RPM much of the uphill time, but I was able to
go up a 6% hill with a 2,000 pound 8x8x12 trailer at 55 MPH and keep
up with traffic on mountain roads.
This car never ceases to amaze me.
Oh... no problem backing the trailer up on gravel roads in EV mode.
No problem pulling the trailer up a 10% slope driveway at 10-15 MPH
in Drive in EV mode.
-John
The hitch is rated for 3500 pounds I think, and the ball, 5,000
pounds.
I towed an 800 pound ( empty ) trailer with 1200 pounds of cargo on
it.
The trailer is 8 feet x 12 feet x 8 feet high. Much taller than the
FEH. So I guess the frontal cross area is 8'x 8'.
The frontal area is perfectly vertical and square.
No helpful aerodynamics whatsoever.
I was very careful not to exceed 60 miles per hour.
But I easily could have.
I did mostly highway driving for 700 miles.
Over half of those miles included Colorado Mountains.
Some roads exceeded 6% grade for short sections.
Some roads were 3-4% for dozens of miles.
I watched everything closely with a ScanGauge.
Outside air was from the 40's to 70's.
NOTHING in the car got hot.
The water temp = Normal to plus 10 degrees of normal the whole time.
The motor and electronics temperatures were all normal.
The car ran at higher RPM, as expected, but only mildly so.
The car used MUCH more battery assist than normal.
The car was using battery assist for every little camel hump on the
highway. It usually doesn't do that.
My battery pack was getting warm enough to requrie A/C ( 86'F ) on
the highway, but just barely, and the A/C quickly cooled the pack to
the mid-70's.
The first 350 miles ( one way ) I ran 50/50 ethanol and gas.
Ethanol is known to produce more horsepower, and I figured I could
use it. (I had previously used ethanol without problems so I knew in
advance my car could handle it.) I went from 4700 ft to 8200 ft
elevation, mostly at 50 to 60 MPH with the trailer in tow.
MPG = about 21.5 MPG with 50% ethanol in the tank.
The way home ( 350 miles ) and downhill ( 8200ft to 4700ft ) I had to
use regular E10 gas. With the same trailer in tow, I got about 23.5
to 24 MPG.
The FEH ran at 4,000 RPM much of the uphill time, but I was able to
go up a 6% hill with a 2,000 pound 8x8x12 trailer at 55 MPH and keep
up with traffic on mountain roads.
This car never ceases to amaze me.
Oh... no problem backing the trailer up on gravel roads in EV mode.
No problem pulling the trailer up a 10% slope driveway at 10-15 MPH
in Drive in EV mode.
-John
Below is from Quora
Ethanol contains less energy thangasoline. Ethanolcontains roughly 2/3 the energy ofgasoline per gallon,
So you Escape would have significantly more power and much better mpg with the standard 10% ethanol that's in gas.
Ethanol is a terrible alternative to gasoline. That is why ethanol refiners have quietly been going out of business.
#14
08-27-2019, 10:54 AM
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
Ethanol has less energy per gallon. TRUE
Ethanol is race fuel. TRUE
Ethanol will produce more power per cubic inch of engine. TRUE
Ethanol will get fewer miles per gallon. TRUE
(volume of fuel used goes up to produce the extra power)
Ethanol prevents knocking. TRUE
(which is why you can add more volume to each stroke)
Ethanol contains oxygen, and oxygen promotes combustion. TRUE. (Like a mini super charger.). Like nitrous oxide adds oxygen to combustion.
Ethanol is widely misunderstood. TRUE
Ethanol is race fuel. TRUE
Ethanol will produce more power per cubic inch of engine. TRUE
Ethanol will get fewer miles per gallon. TRUE
(volume of fuel used goes up to produce the extra power)
Ethanol prevents knocking. TRUE
(which is why you can add more volume to each stroke)
Ethanol contains oxygen, and oxygen promotes combustion. TRUE. (Like a mini super charger.). Like nitrous oxide adds oxygen to combustion.
Ethanol is widely misunderstood. TRUE
That is very impressive. The only thing I noticed is your Ethanol usage.
Below is from Quora
Ethanol contains less energy thangasoline. Ethanolcontains roughly 2/3 the energy ofgasoline per gallon,
So you Escape would have significantly more power and much better mpg with the standard 10% ethanol that's in gas.
Ethanol is a terrible alternative to gasoline. That is why ethanol refiners have quietly been going out of business.
Below is from Quora
Ethanol contains less energy thangasoline. Ethanolcontains roughly 2/3 the energy ofgasoline per gallon,
So you Escape would have significantly more power and much better mpg with the standard 10% ethanol that's in gas.
Ethanol is a terrible alternative to gasoline. That is why ethanol refiners have quietly been going out of business.
#15
09-03-2019, 10:03 PM
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
The eCVT is the bottle neck of towing. I knew a guy who broke his eCVT by towing. I'm wondering if there is a way to cool the eCVT.
#16
09-08-2019, 03:49 PM
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
When I towed 2500 lbs for hours on end at hoghway speeds temperatures only ran about 15 degrees above average and 100 degrees below the point you get a warning message or light. I do not think the eCVT is a bottleneck. The low horsepower and torque of this gas engine is. The electric motor's high torque is mainly helpful at low speeds.
#17
09-15-2019, 09:50 AM
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
I towed 1500lbs in July with my aging 2005 FEH. I monitored temperatures with the scanguage II and never really worried about overheating. I would agree with the gas engine lower HP and torque values as limiting capability.
#18
09-16-2019, 05:08 AM
Re: Successful Tow of 2,000 pounds
I have recently towed a little over 2000 lbs total weight. 5x10x7ft high enclosed
last trip was about 200 miles, no problem at all. The few hills I encountered weren't much fun. I routed around all I could.
last trip was about 200 miles, no problem at all. The few hills I encountered weren't much fun. I routed around all I could.
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