Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by Rwolf01
(Post 247375)
I took my '07 FEH to the dealer. They said it wants a fan kit and the blend door repair. They gave me an estimate of over $1600 and said it was NOT covered by 'Hybrid Unique Components' warrenty.
I'm currently fighting it. If you try to argue the point with the SA, they refer you to corporate cutomer service. I called them and they read me the warranty which says it covers 'the following parts Battery, DC-DC converter & CV Transmission' for 8 years or 100k miles. They say 'see, the fan isn't listed'. Of course the fan is part of the battery assembly. Eventually the CSR ageed to 'escalate' it and gave me a case #. She said the next step was to take it up with the service manager at the dealer and/or the local Ford Rep. (Get the name of the ford corporate rep, you'll need it) So, I called the Service Manager and emailed him this link: http://www.hybridcars.com/10-years-a...atteries-67399 In it they explain how well the batteries are tested. In the graphic 'Ford Hybrid Battery Evolution' they show the battery and the fans are clearly visible as part of the battery. The Service Manager explained that they don't have any control over warranty decisions. They just type a part number into the computer and the computer says if its covered or not. I told him the computer was obviously wrong and he (big surprise) said I had to take it up with Ford again. He did say he would email the Ford Rep and I asked him to invite the rep to call me directly. I also gave them approval to start the repair. I need my car back and want it fixed right. (Do NOT just live with it... Chronic high temperatures will shorten the life of the battery, which the dealer mentioned is a $10,000 part!) I figure I can always sue them in small claims court to get the cost of the repair back. I don't just want my car fixed though. I want them to fix their parts computer. It will kill the sales of the Cmax if their hybrids get a reputation for failing with $1600 repairs after only 60k miles. My '05 Prius has over 125k miles and is still going strong. https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...battery-27697/ |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by GatorJ
(Post 247379)
I think he provided this same link to his Ford dealer. |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by GaryG
(Post 247376)
Look Ralph, the HV battery does not want a fan kit, there are two codes for the #1 fan and #2 fan inside the battery assembly. The Ford workshop manual states if any one of those DTC codes pop up, the dealer must replace the battery assembly. Both Ford and the dealers know this, but play dumb of this issue too rip you off. If the fan or fans are bad under the 8yr/100K mile warranty, Ford must replace the HV battery or the fans inside the battery assembly.
Here at Greenhybrid, we are getting sick and tired of Ford and their dealers causing issues with warranty work that is covered by law. It's in writing in Ford's manuals! I can provide the Ford manual sections if needed, but that will make me more pissed off to go the New Media about another claim Ford and their dealers are putting out. I agree, the blend doors are not covered under the hybrid warranty, but those fans are! GaryG For future reference, would it be possible to scan the relevant pages and post them to this site? Then people could print them out and show them to the dealers. |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by stevedebi
(Post 247397)
Gary,
For future reference, would it be possible to scan the relevant pages and post them to this site? Then people could print them out and show them to the dealers. Yes, but not in this thread titled "wrench light". My opinion is that a new thread with a sticky at the top is warranted here at Greenhybrid. CarlD at Cleanmpg.com just posted today that he just got his '05 FEH battery fans replaced without any trouble. The dealer first told him they were going to replace the HV battery, but when he picked his FEH up, the fans were replaced only. I have the '05 FEH manuals as well as the '09 manuals. Both manuals say the same thing, so you can bet the '06 - '08 manuals have included the same sections word for word. In volume 2 in the '05 Workshop manual, sections 414-03-16 thru 414-03-19 under Battery Pack Over Temperature have these statements. In the '09 FEH Workshop Manual volume 1, sections 414-03-15 thru 414-03-17. Both manuals state that if DTCs POA81 (Fan 1) or POA96 (fan 2) fail, Install a new HVTB (high voltage traction battery). If someone here has the manuals on CD, please post these sections, or I will need to take pictures of the pages and post them. GaryG |
Re: wrench light
Here are the referenced pages from the 2005 service manual. Not sure how long I'll be able to leave this up, so hopefully someone will copy to a more permanent location.
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by elborak
(Post 247429)
Here are the referenced pages from the 2005 service manual. Not sure how long I'll be able to leave this up, so hopefully someone will copy to a more permanent location.
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf 414-03-16 High Voltage Traction Battery DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued) PINPOINT TEST D: DTC P0A7E — HYBRID BATTERY PACK OVER-TEMPERATURE (Con tinued) Test Step Result / Action to Take D4 CHECK FOR CORRECT TBCM OPERATION NOTE: This pinpoint test step only addresses the 6-pin and 40-pin connectors for the TBCM. It is not necessary to disconnect the high Yes voltage connectors when following this pinpoint test step p rocedure. INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to • Disconnect both of the TBCM electrical connectors. High-Voltage T raction Battery in this • Check for: section. TEST the system for normal operation. • corrosion • pushed-out pins No • Connect both of the TBCM connectors and make sure they seat The system is operating correctly at this correctly. time. The concern may have been caused • Operate the system and verify the concern is still present. by a lo ose or corroded connector. CLEAR • Is the concern still present? the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. Pinpoint Test E: DTCs P0A81, P0A96 — Possible Causes Hybrid Battery Pack Cooling Fans 1 And 2 • cooling fan 1 or 2 (part of HVTB) Control Circuits • HVTB Normal Operation With the ignition switch in the ON position and the engine ON or OFF (the engine must have started at least once after the ignition switch was cycled to ON), 2 internal fans to the high voltage traction battery (HVTB) circulate climate controlled air within the HVTB so it can maintain a specific temperature range. A failure of the cooling fan(s) or their associated circuits causes one (or both) of the DTCs to be flagged 414-03-17 414-03-17 High Voltage Traction Battery DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued) PINPOINT TEST E: DTC P0A81, P0A96 — HYBRID BATTERY PACK COOLING FANS 1 AND 2 CONTROL CIRCUITS Test Step Result / Action to Take E1 VERIFY THE HIGH VOLTAGE TRACTION BATTERY (HVTB) INTERNAL FANS ARE OPERATIONAL WARNING: The nominal high voltage traction battery (HVTB) voltage is 330 volts DC. The buffer zone must be set up and high voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shie ld must be worn. Failure to follow these instructions may re sult in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: The high voltage traction battery and charging system contains high voltage components and wi ring. High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield m ust be worn when carrying out any diagnostics on this vehicle . Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe person al injury or death. WARNING: Before carrying out any removal and installation procedures of the high voltage traction battery system, the high voltage traction battery must be depowered . Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: The rubber insulating gloves that are to be worn while working on the high voltage system should b e of the appropriate safety and protection rating for use on the high voltage system. They must be inspected before use and mu st always be worn in conjunction with the leather outer gl oves. Any hole in the rubber insulating glove is a potential entry point for high voltage. Failure to follow these instruction s may result in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield must be worn when working with high voltage cables. The ignition switch must be OFF for a minimum o f 5 minutes before removing high voltage cables. Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe personal injur y or death. WARNING: The buffer zone is required only when working with the high voltage system. Failure to follow th ese instructions may result in severe personal injury or d eath. • NOTE: Use a stethoscope or equivalent listening device to probe the HVTB area. Yes NOTE: The cooling fans may cycle on or off with the key ON, GO to E2 . engine ON or OFF. With the ignition switch in the ON position and the en gine ON or No OFF (the engine must have run at least once after the ignit ion INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to switch was cycled to ON), verify the HVTB internal fans are High-Volt age Traction Battery in this operational. section. TEST the system for normal • Are the HVTB internal fans operating correctly? operation. E2 CHECK FOR CORRECT TRACTION BATTERY CONTROL MODULE (TBCM) OPERATION NOTE: This pinpoint test step only addresses the 6-pin and 40-pin connectors for the TBCM. It is not necessary to disconnect the high Yes voltage connectors when following this pinpoint test step p rocedure. INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to • Disconnect both of the TBCM electrical connectors. High-Voltage T raction Battery in this • Check for: section. TEST the system for normal operation. • corrosion • pushed-out pins No • Connect both of the TBCM connectors and make sure they seat The system is operating correctly at this correctly. time. The concern may have been caused • Operate the system and verify the concern is still present. by a lo ose or corroded connector. CLEAR • Is the concern still present? the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. 2005 Escape, Mariner, Escape Hybrid 10/2004 414-03-18 414-03-18 High Voltage Traction Battery DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued) Pinpoint Test F: DTCs P0A8B, P0A8D, Possible Causes P0A8E — 14-Volt Power Module System • 12-volt battery Voltage • HVTB Normal Operation With the ignition switch in the ON position and the engine ON or OFF (the engine must have started at least once after the ignition switch was cycled to ON), the planetary gear set in the electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (eCVT) will engage the generator (also in the eCVT), which charges the high voltage traction battery (HVTB) and supplies high voltage to the DC/DC converter. The DC/DC converter steps the voltage down to 12 volts (operating range of 13.35 - 16 volts). The DC/DC converter charges the low voltage battery which is used to power the vehicle interior components and the PCM. 2005 Escape, Mariner, Escape Hybrid 10/2 414-03-19 414-03-19 High Voltage Traction Battery DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued) PINPOINT TEST F: DTC P0A8B, P0A8D, P0A8E — 14-VOLT POWER MODULE SY STEM VOLTAGE Test Step Result / Action to Take F1 CHECK THE HISTORY OF THE VEHICLE WARNING: The nominal high voltage traction battery (HVTB) voltage is 330 volts DC. The buffer zone must be set up and high voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shie ld must be worn. Failure to follow these instructions may re sult in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: The high voltage traction battery and charging system contains high voltage components and wi ring. High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield m ust be worn when carrying out any diagnostics on this vehicle . Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe person al injury or death. WARNING: Before carrying out any removal and installation procedures of the high voltage traction battery system, the high voltage traction battery must be depowered . Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: The rubber insulating gloves that are to be worn while working on the high voltage system should b e of the appropriate safety and protection rating for use on the high voltage system. They must be inspected before use and mu st always be worn in conjunction with the leather outer gl oves. Any hole in the rubber insulating glove is a potential entry point for high voltage. Failure to follow these instruction s may result in severe personal injury or death. WARNING: High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield must be worn when working with high voltage cables. The ignition switch must be OFF for a minimum o f 5 minutes before removing high voltage cables. Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe personal injur y or death. WARNING: The buffer zone is required only when working with the high voltage system. Failure to follow th ese instructions may result in severe personal injury or d eath. Yes • Verify if the low voltage battery has recently had the termina ls CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. If disconnected/cleaned or if the low voltage battery has been the self-test passes, RETURN the vehicle recently replaced. If so, DTCs P0A8B, P0A8D, and P0A8E may to the customer until the concern can be have been flagged. verified. • Has the low voltage battery recently had the terminals disconnected/cleaned or has the low voltage battery No recently been replaced? GO to F2 . F2 VERIFY THE INTEGRITY OF THE LOW VOLTAGE BATTERY • Carry out the 12-Volt Battery Condition Test to determine if the Yes battery can hold a charge and is OK for use. Refer to Section GO to F3 . 414-01. No • Did the battery pass the condition test? INSTALL a new 12-volt battery. REFER to 12 Volt Battery in this section. TEST the system for normal operation. F3 CHECK THE TRACTION BATTERY CONTROL MODULE (TBCM) DTCS • Check the recorded TBCM DTCs from the continuous and Yes on-demand self-tests. GO to F4 . • Was DTC P0A8B retrieved? No REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) man Okay, here is the printed copy of the '05 FEH Workshop Manual. This should be good enough for Ford and the dealers to quit screwing around with the Hybrid 8yr/100K warranty. GaryG |
Re: wrench light
Gary,
Thanks for the post. I wonder if anyone has the pages for the Gen2 (2009 and later)... |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by stevedebi
(Post 247446)
Gary,
Thanks for the post. I wonder if anyone has the pages for the Gen2 (2009 and later)... GaryG |
Re: wrench light
Originally Posted by TheBundo
(Post 235615)
I've ignored it for the 118,000 miles on my 2008. Probably something to do with the "coffee perculator" behind the dash. It's never been an issue, and it runs like new.
I know you can pull those specific codes using a Ford-specific scan tool that supposedly instructs the main module to check the surrounding modules for DTCs, though I have no idea how that functions, or on which specific scan tools. For instance, I had a major SSN problem awhile back and 2 generic scan tools hooked to my OBDII port showed no codes at all. The dealership plugged in their own Ford-specific tool and pulled about 11 different codes from all the different modules like ABS and electrical (the problem turned out to be my 12V battery system... dying battery, which their tool pulled). |
Re: wrench light
this what they have in the owner manual for a 2008 ford escape hybrid
wrench light: Throttle control/Powertrain: Illuminates when a powertrain fault has been detected. Contact your authorized dealer as soon as possible. Can it be transmission related or just the throttle needing a clean .... I cleaned my throttle, it was a bit dirty. But the light was not one before i cleaned it, it was just on in the morning in when i saw it i just turn off the engine, and restarted it, keeping the key in position II for some time. and then it was gone. the owner manual does not talk about the back ventilation door for the batteries. So, I am confused??????????? I did check that too, and it was operating well. |
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