http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...9gEo9ALBpQ3owQ

Way to go! Looking forward to more progress.

Bob Wilson

 

I agree and will be rooting for one of the US HOME teams.

I hope they can eventually put something out there that competes well with the HiHy and the FEH - I dont think the Vue does yet... If so - I will replace my Town and Country (van, not citizenship).

 

How about GM making fuel efficient cars?

Yes, while it's true that any impovement is good, why not compete with Japan's efficiency for smaller vehicles?
How about a 50 or 60 MPG sedan? Open the market to a plug-in battery electric? (Without later crushing all of them)

I wonder if those titanic GM hybrids will be sold, or available for lease only?

-Steve

 

I'm glad to see full hybrid offerings in larger vehicles. I wish they were also offered in pickup trucks (the current GM offering is just a mild hybrid). When one looks at gas consumption in the more useful gallons/mile (or gallons/year) rather than mpg, it becomes apparent that there is far more oil to be saved from big vehicles going hybrid. Anybody know how GM's hybrid city busses are doing?

 

I'm looking for either a hybrid minivan or the GM two-mode in a "frame" that can carry an RV shell. This will meet my wife's demand for an RV and my demand for efficiency. Granted, it won't have great highway MPG but when we get to the destination, it won't require owning our own oil well to move about.

I also see efficiency as being needed as part of a continum from the smallest, four seater (in some countries two+ seaters) up through the largest freight and construction vehicles. The advantages of hybrid transmissions are so great and IMHO it scales well.

To me, hybrid technology moves 'peak power' demands from over-sizing the ICE to a mix of electric-battery and allows optimization of the ICE. Today, ICE only vehicles have to use oversized engines to meet their peak power demands. Hybrid technology allows us to avoid the overhead and inefficiencies of partial power, large engine operation.

Now the the europeans can deliver on their diesel hybrids, that will be game, set, point. Then we'll have to find new challenges . . . smart highways.

Bob Wilson

 

Wow a hybrid RV. What you could do if the batteries were large enough

1 onboard 110v system
2 PHEV
3 Diesel/electric hybrid
4 no need for a aux generator
5 runs off a methane generator off the sewer tank

 

Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6 4 cylinders are rated at 22 / 30, as compared to Honda Accord 22 / 31 and Toyota Camry 21 / 31

A 3.5L V6 Chevy Impala seats 5 or 6 and leads its class in fuel economy with 18 / 29. So for people interested in the Accord / Camry size vehicle, I guess we already do.

Stay tuned. First you take care of your bread and butter, then you spread the wealth. Saturn is launching the Astra fairly soon. It should be fairly competitive with Civic and Corolla on all measures.

Saturn VUE Plug-in has already been announced, as has the Chevrolet Volt

You may buy or you may lease. And you may keep them for as long as you see fit. How many you want?


Peace,

Martin

 

Hmmm, even with $4 gasoline,there will be a market for a biggish SUV that gets an honest 16-18 mpg in the city and maybe 24-25 highway.Our ancient(1998 197,000 miles) Suburban-acquired 5 months ago-is a surprisingly good vehicle(everything works,nice comfortable ride-lotta rattles on rough roads, but pretty quiet on interstates).It get 16 mpg in the city when 1/2 of the city driving is city interstate.In the purest redlight to redlight city it gets 12-13mpg.This isn't too bad considering it can haul 8 people, or a lot of 4x8 building material, or tow.They are great evac vehicles-toss in everyone and everything and go.
I drive it about 90 miles a week,and get 13.5 mpg-If it got 18 mpg I would save about 1.6 gal/wk-87 gallons/yr.Most folks drive the wheels off them-300+miles per week,and will save about 300 gallons/yr over a normal Suburban.They are commonly kept to 150,000 miles so they will make their premium back in about 6 years,and be "greener" the whole time.
The big SUVs will be on the road for a long time;the numbers will drop, but they are more useful than pickups in many respects,so they will be around even with $7 gasoline(just driven less, of course)
Charlie
Many folks with $$ problems will buy used big SUVs because they are cheap,and versatile.

 

Hi Martin, thanks for the reply.

Those GM vehicles you mention can get (and exceed, for a few) 31MPG.
But you make my point.
Foreign auto makers have been well exceeding the 30MPG flag that GM so proudly waves in its advertisements. I only can only wonder why the big 3 continue to lag so far behind. (Certainly not only GM)

Most of us here know the actual MPG- and potential in the HCH and Prius, which have been out at least 5 years. Case in point:

Many Prius owners choose to drive more thoughtfully and get +60MPG in thier car- same with HCH owners. Personally, in a pinch, I can approach 70 with my 5 passenger sedan.

I haven't heard reports of anyone driving any of the big 3 even in the same MPG ballpark. Who knows, perhaps GM can reach that if and when they put the new drivetrain in their smaller cars (Which would benefit most).

At least folks will be able to buy- vs lease- the new titanic GM hybrid vehicles, and not be forced to return them for some terrible fate.

Chevy Volt holds a lot of promise. But remains only GM's concept car.

-Steve

 

Steve,

If you can agree to the idea that there are several angles to the fuel economy question AND that different automakers have different points of strength, then I submit to you the following.....

ANGLES TO FUEL ECONOMY:

How is fuel economy best measured? Is it one of these?

• Miles per gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel
• Miles per gallon of petroleum or diesel (not the same as the above)
• CO2 emissions in g/km (this is the approach of the EU, California, and several other states)
• Gallons of gasoline used per year

Or is there some other measure? Or combinations of the above? The best approach to solve one of the above may not be the best approach to solving the others.

How should an automaker seek to make the most impact?

• Produce one vehicle that gets a higher label number than any other
• Reduce the gallons of gasoline consumed per year by its highest volume products
• Provide the widest portfolio of segment fuel economy leading vehicles
• Have the highest average fuel economy, sales volume weighted, in the marketplace
• Displace the most petroleum required to operate its vehicles
• Completely respin their portfolio of products to achieve higher label numbers

So, what's my point? There are two actually. One is that depending on what the focus and priorities a company has for resolving the environmental / fuel conservation / dependency on oil, the technologies deployed to address these issues may differ in type and portfolio area of focus. The other is that as a company works toward implementing fuel saving technologies, they will do so first from their positions of strength in the industry.

If a company is focused on getting the highest sticker number they can, then they are going to focus on smaller, lighter weight, more aerodynamic vehicles. They may then consider hybrid electric, diesel, or variable displacement technology solutions (or some combination). Then they would gradually expand usage of these technologies to other parts of their portfolio. Example....Hybrid electric technology in Prius, then Highlander / RX400, then Camry. Tundra (irresistable area of conquest) was on the path at one point but Toyota ran into difficulty in scaling the technology that far up.

If a company is focused on achieving maximum reduction in the consumption of petroleum products across their product portfolio, then they are going to focus on their highest volume vehicles, particularly those that have the highest consumption, and work towards reducing the consumption by considering hybrid electric, diesel, or variable displacement technology solutions. Examples.....variable cylinder displacement in high volume Chevrolet and GMC SUVs and pickups, then high volume Chevrolet Impala.

Examples......2-Mode Hybrid technology in Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon, followed by Escalade, Sierra, Silverado and Saturn VUE. There is no public press release describing 2-Mode on any car programs so I will not comment there.

They may also look to replace petroleum-based fuels with some other type of fuel.

Examples....FlexFuel (low petroleum content) capability for high volume trucks (Silverado, Sierra) SUVs (Tahoe, Yukon) and cars (Impala)

POINTS OF STRENGTH:

Toyota and Honda have demonstrated market strength in Mid Size, Small, and Compact Cars. Focusing hybrid technologies on Insight, Civic, Camry, and Prius make total sense from the aspect of protecting your market strong point. Personally, I wonder why Corolla and Yaris are not available in hybrid form yet. I would guess that it has to do with ability to get price.

GM, Ford and Chrysler have demonstrated strength in the Full Size Pickup, Full Size SUV, and Mid Size Car segments. I could list all the applications that each has in these segments for FlexFuel and diesel, but that would make this post waaaay too long (too late )

Bottom line is, each group of companies is going to first protect the strong points in their portfolio with fuel savings technologies, then spread out into areas of conquest.

Long post.....hope it makes sense.

Peace,

Martin