Telsa vs Volt; expectations
#21
05-14-2008, 10:46 AM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
MY VOTE is the Telsa. I am sure you recall - GM KILLED THE EV1. My faith is certainly not on GM. They are just too busy making their HUMMERS. After all, that is what replaced the EV1. How efficient was that-huh? We shall see with the rising gas prices if they also decide to crush the HUMMERS- HIGHLY DOUBTFUL!!!! They will continue making large GAS GUZZLING SUVs. Just look at the facts...the majority of GM's product line is GAS GUZZLERS (vehicles getting less than 20 mpg)
#22
05-14-2008, 11:05 AM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
[quote=Neil;172323]I agree!! Darn GM keeps building gus guzzling SUVs and then puts a gun to poor old americans heads and MAKES THEM BUY IT!!! Could you provide documentation on this statement?
Even worse, they MAKE them drive it instead of taking public transportation. It is well known that if it wasn't for GM's strong arm tactics and repeated threats of bodily harm....
Could you please give me one police report/documentation on this statement?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to analyze these statements.
Even worse, they MAKE them drive it instead of taking public transportation. It is well known that if it wasn't for GM's strong arm tactics and repeated threats of bodily harm....
Could you please give me one police report/documentation on this statement?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to analyze these statements.
#23
05-14-2008, 12:28 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
[quote=Billyk;172329]
Seriously?
I agree!! Darn GM keeps building gus guzzling SUVs and then puts a gun to poor old americans heads and MAKES THEM BUY IT!!! Could you provide documentation on this statement?
Even worse, they MAKE them drive it instead of taking public transportation. It is well known that if it wasn't for GM's strong arm tactics and repeated threats of bodily harm....
Could you please give me one police report/documentation on this statement?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to analyze these statements.
Even worse, they MAKE them drive it instead of taking public transportation. It is well known that if it wasn't for GM's strong arm tactics and repeated threats of bodily harm....
Could you please give me one police report/documentation on this statement?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to analyze these statements.
Seriously?
#25
05-14-2008, 12:58 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
[quote=Billyk;172359]
ummmm - I was being sarcastic. You know - making fun of the conspiracy theorists.
There are some people on this board that think that GM is part of some evil conspiracy to stop fuel efficient cars at all costs and spread gas guzzling SUVs around the world. They can't explain why GM wants to do this, but they are sure of it - and always point to the EV1 as the 'smoking gun' that proves their point. What they typical leave out is what GM's motivation is. I guess it is easier to blame GM that to face the fact that the American people create the market and demand for GM's products.
ummmm - I was being sarcastic. You know - making fun of the conspiracy theorists.
There are some people on this board that think that GM is part of some evil conspiracy to stop fuel efficient cars at all costs and spread gas guzzling SUVs around the world. They can't explain why GM wants to do this, but they are sure of it - and always point to the EV1 as the 'smoking gun' that proves their point. What they typical leave out is what GM's motivation is. I guess it is easier to blame GM that to face the fact that the American people create the market and demand for GM's products.
#26
05-16-2008, 08:34 AM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
A couple independent articles discussing Chevy Volt product development.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-volt.html
http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=94808&lk=s
If the conspiracy theorists are correct, then this will have to go down as the most elaborate and expensive ploy to "bury" a product technology in automotive history. I, on the other hand, am very pleased with the progress of the Volt.
I'm not sure the justAuto site will be viewable by most, so I pasted the relevant info below.
Peace,
Martin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
General Motors has test driven its Volt petrol-electric car for the first time on public roads and is meeting the target of 40 miles on pure electric power, according to a US report.
GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told Edmunds.coms' AutoObserver that the car ran on the street on battery power for the first time last Tuesday.
He said the Volt's powertrain, which combines a lithium-ion battery and a small petrol engine, was installed in a 'mule' test vehicle which is being driven on public roads around GM's proving grounds in Milford, Michigan.
"It is reliably meeting its objectives," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "Even with a rough calibration, even with the wrong drive unit, the wrong body, etc etc, it has been hitting its 40 miles on electric power."
Tuesday's road test came after last week's testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions, such as varying road surfaces and changing ambient temperatures, the report added.
AutoObserver.com noted that other automakers - including Renault-Nissan, Mitsubishi and Audi - had followed GM in developing the lithium-ion type of battery used in the Volt, in contrast to Toyota which is retaining nickel-metal hydride batteries for its next Prius hybrid, though it is known also to be working on the more advanced battery.
"The reason we point this out (others using lithium-ion) shows the fallibility of Toyota and the American press, which is totally enamoured with Toyota," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "When we say lithium-ion is good and Toyota says they don't trust them and they are unproven, people say we're taking a huge risk."
Frank Weber, GM's global vehicle line executive and chief engineer of the E-Flex systems development team, told AutoObserver last August that the biggest challenge is to manage the thermal dynamics of the lithium-ion batteries so that the batteries are the same temperature.
Lutz reportedly insisted this week that the lithium-ion battery on the road has passed that test but would not say which supplier's battery is in the test mule - GM has development contracts with multiple battery makers.
According to AutoObserver.com, Lutz confirmed that in dynamometer tests last week of the Volt's lithium-ion batteries, engineers raised ambient temperatures and shut off the cooling system and the result was what GM had hoped - the battery showed only a slight rise in temperature and the heat was consistent across all of the battery cells with no pockets of intense heat.
"I can almost say the battery is the least of our problems," Lutz told AutoObserver.
He added that the challenge now is the smooth integration of the battery with the petrol engine that, unlike traditional hybrids that use a petrol engine to power the vehicle, starts only to generate electricity to feed the battery.
Lutz told AutoObserver.com the successful dynamometer and road tests increase GM's confidence that the Volt will be launched in November 2010.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-volt.html
http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=94808&lk=s
If the conspiracy theorists are correct, then this will have to go down as the most elaborate and expensive ploy to "bury" a product technology in automotive history. I, on the other hand, am very pleased with the progress of the Volt.
I'm not sure the justAuto site will be viewable by most, so I pasted the relevant info below.
Peace,
Martin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
General Motors has test driven its Volt petrol-electric car for the first time on public roads and is meeting the target of 40 miles on pure electric power, according to a US report.
GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told Edmunds.coms' AutoObserver that the car ran on the street on battery power for the first time last Tuesday.
He said the Volt's powertrain, which combines a lithium-ion battery and a small petrol engine, was installed in a 'mule' test vehicle which is being driven on public roads around GM's proving grounds in Milford, Michigan.
"It is reliably meeting its objectives," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "Even with a rough calibration, even with the wrong drive unit, the wrong body, etc etc, it has been hitting its 40 miles on electric power."
Tuesday's road test came after last week's testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions, such as varying road surfaces and changing ambient temperatures, the report added.
AutoObserver.com noted that other automakers - including Renault-Nissan, Mitsubishi and Audi - had followed GM in developing the lithium-ion type of battery used in the Volt, in contrast to Toyota which is retaining nickel-metal hydride batteries for its next Prius hybrid, though it is known also to be working on the more advanced battery.
"The reason we point this out (others using lithium-ion) shows the fallibility of Toyota and the American press, which is totally enamoured with Toyota," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "When we say lithium-ion is good and Toyota says they don't trust them and they are unproven, people say we're taking a huge risk."
Frank Weber, GM's global vehicle line executive and chief engineer of the E-Flex systems development team, told AutoObserver last August that the biggest challenge is to manage the thermal dynamics of the lithium-ion batteries so that the batteries are the same temperature.
Lutz reportedly insisted this week that the lithium-ion battery on the road has passed that test but would not say which supplier's battery is in the test mule - GM has development contracts with multiple battery makers.
According to AutoObserver.com, Lutz confirmed that in dynamometer tests last week of the Volt's lithium-ion batteries, engineers raised ambient temperatures and shut off the cooling system and the result was what GM had hoped - the battery showed only a slight rise in temperature and the heat was consistent across all of the battery cells with no pockets of intense heat.
"I can almost say the battery is the least of our problems," Lutz told AutoObserver.
He added that the challenge now is the smooth integration of the battery with the petrol engine that, unlike traditional hybrids that use a petrol engine to power the vehicle, starts only to generate electricity to feed the battery.
Lutz told AutoObserver.com the successful dynamometer and road tests increase GM's confidence that the Volt will be launched in November 2010.
#27
05-16-2008, 04:35 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
Just a note to all the "GM killed the EV1" people out there....
Have you seen "Who killed the electric car?" GM played their part but the movie spread the blame around to several places. Several car manufactures besides GM (including Honda and Toyota) had electric vehicle programs and they did the exact same thing GM did. They took their EVs back and smashed em!
Have you seen "Who killed the electric car?" GM played their part but the movie spread the blame around to several places. Several car manufactures besides GM (including Honda and Toyota) had electric vehicle programs and they did the exact same thing GM did. They took their EVs back and smashed em!
Last edited by BigTuna; 05-16-2008 at 09:00 PM. Reason: add Honda
#28
05-16-2008, 06:16 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
Just a note to all the "GM killed the EV1" people out there....
Have you seen "Who killed the electric car?" GM played their part but the movie spread the blame around to several places. Several car manufactures besides GM (including Toyota) had electric vehicle programs and they did the exact same thing GM did. They took their EVs back and smashed em!
Have you seen "Who killed the electric car?" GM played their part but the movie spread the blame around to several places. Several car manufactures besides GM (including Toyota) had electric vehicle programs and they did the exact same thing GM did. They took their EVs back and smashed em!
#29
05-16-2008, 08:54 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
Like other manufacturers, Toyota began destroying RAV4 EVs as they came off lease, after lease continuances were denied to owners.
Once the last of the 328 EV’s was sold in November 2002, the website disappeared and the EV program was unceremoniously scrapped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Plus
The EV Plus was listed with an MSRP of $53,000, but Honda never allowed them to be sold, instead offering the cars on a 3-year, lease-only program. Honda allowed some customers to extend their EV Plus lease for a few years. At the end of the leases, all EV Plus cars were taken back by Honda and decommissioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV
The Ford Ranger EV (Electric Vehicle) is a battery electric vehicle produced by Ford Motor Company....All leases were terminated in 2003-04, and the vehicles were recalled.
#30
05-16-2008, 09:54 PM
Re: Telsa vs Volt; expectations
Excellent news!
This last test is particularly important. When I read a description of GM's active environmental management of the batteries, I realized that they'd come up with a solid engineering solution. The most recent test with the environmental system turned off means these test batteries have excellent tolerance.
A different chemistry, traction power batteries must be treated with respect. Not mine, these NiMH batteries suffered an unfortunate charging incident:
However, I've had some of mine swell in the past when I haven't kept close attention. In contrast, many LiON batteries would have left a smoking, charred mess.
Changing the subject slightly, I'm hoping the hybrid two-modes are selling well. I particular I'd like to see them branch out to light duty trucks and small end RVs.
Bob Wilson
...
GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told Edmunds.coms' AutoObserver that the car ran on the street on battery power for the first time last Tuesday.
He said the Volt's powertrain, which combines a lithium-ion battery and a small petrol engine, was installed in a 'mule' test vehicle which is being driven on public roads around GM's proving grounds in Milford, Michigan.
"It is reliably meeting its objectives," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "Even with a rough calibration, even with the wrong drive unit, the wrong body, etc etc, it has been hitting its 40 miles on electric power."
Tuesday's road test came after last week's testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions, such as varying road surfaces and changing ambient temperatures, the report added.
... Lutz confirmed that in dynamometer tests last week of the Volt's lithium-ion batteries, engineers raised ambient temperatures and shut off the cooling system and the result was what GM had hoped - the battery showed only a slight rise in temperature and the heat was consistent across all of the battery cells with no pockets of intense heat.
"I can almost say the battery is the least of our problems," Lutz told AutoObserver.
...
GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told Edmunds.coms' AutoObserver that the car ran on the street on battery power for the first time last Tuesday.
He said the Volt's powertrain, which combines a lithium-ion battery and a small petrol engine, was installed in a 'mule' test vehicle which is being driven on public roads around GM's proving grounds in Milford, Michigan.
"It is reliably meeting its objectives," Lutz told AutoObserver.com. "Even with a rough calibration, even with the wrong drive unit, the wrong body, etc etc, it has been hitting its 40 miles on electric power."
Tuesday's road test came after last week's testing of the Volt powertrain on a dynamometer that simulated real-world conditions, such as varying road surfaces and changing ambient temperatures, the report added.
... Lutz confirmed that in dynamometer tests last week of the Volt's lithium-ion batteries, engineers raised ambient temperatures and shut off the cooling system and the result was what GM had hoped - the battery showed only a slight rise in temperature and the heat was consistent across all of the battery cells with no pockets of intense heat.
"I can almost say the battery is the least of our problems," Lutz told AutoObserver.
...
A different chemistry, traction power batteries must be treated with respect. Not mine, these NiMH batteries suffered an unfortunate charging incident:
However, I've had some of mine swell in the past when I haven't kept close attention. In contrast, many LiON batteries would have left a smoking, charred mess.
Changing the subject slightly, I'm hoping the hybrid two-modes are selling well. I particular I'd like to see them branch out to light duty trucks and small end RVs.
Bob Wilson
