I disagree vigorously. The idea that a car's "value" impacts the situation makes no sense.

If I spent $10,000 on a car, and I got 100,000 miles out of it, I would be very happy.

That breaks down to $0.10/mile. If a car is generally reliable (failures not often enough to be a nuisance), and my maintenance cost is less than $0.10/mile, then I'm ahead of the game.

When one claims "more than the car is worth", they usually ignore the fact that there's a cost associated with REPLACEMENT.

"still functions like new" is a completely unfounded. "Still functions", sure. GM had nothing to do with it. Toyota made it.

 

Everyone here most likely drives or owns a hybrid or is considering purchasing one which indicates that they are probably very cost conscious individuals. (aka tightwads) You are of course entitled to your opinion but If you think the actual value of an old worn out low value vehicle does not factor into the math for calculating cost of repairs break even analysis then please explain why there are thousands of under 10 year old low mileage Dodge Caravans that have perfect exterior/interior sitting in the salvage yards right now because the vehicle is not worth the cost of a new engine or transmission to put them back on the road? Would that math not apply to a Hybrid vehicle simply because it is a Hybrid? If I had no sense of value and I did not think about cost, I could keep a sweet Caravan running forever LMFAO Fact is there IS a point of diminishing returns no matter how much people howl against it. "dnt" OUT and he drops the microphone BAM Have a great night everybody.

 

Good Afternoon @ S Keith,

I have noticed your name on both this forum and you tube. With that said, it seems you are very knowledgeable when it comes to these vehicles. I have a 09 GMC Sierra Hybrid and just recently rebuilt the engine due to notorious cam/lifter failure. What I am looking for from you today would be advice/guidance on where to buy the replacement cells for my Hybrid battery pack as I am starting to get the early signs of failure (P04BB). Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Search my recent posts in this area of the forum.

If you think you're going to be able to pull the pack, measure a handful of bad modules and then replace a few, you are very mistaken. You will need 40 replacement modules.

Search for Jaime's recent test results of his battery. Almost all of his modules were completely destroyed even though they held good voltage.

 

It seems that the battery supplier Primeearth EV refuses to sell NEW Panasonic Prismatic MiMH individual replacement batteries to anyone. The ONLY NEW modules you can get are in an entire new battery assembly at this time. What we are stuck with is people selling over 10 year old used batteries "supposedly" reconditioned (some probably better than others but who really knows) to an unsuspecting public. I really like S Keith's comparison that I saw in one of the many threads about having a tractor trailer rig with all bald tires. One goes flat and you stick on another old bald tire, then you are surprised when you have more failures later on. Unless the battery manufacturer changes their policy on selling individual battery modules we are all basically screwed into spending big bucks on a NEW battery assembly or playing the "wack a mole" game forever. From my research and talking to people like Greentech / Bumblebee and others the GM battery management system is super hard on these batteries, they will ALL be basically destroyed and unusable when the POAC4 and POBBD codes show up.

 

You've incorrectly applied my analogy. It's unlikely that the replacement module will be the next to fail. It's likely that one of the original modules will fail, so even if you had access to brand new modules, nothing would change... it would still be a game of whack-a-mole as you continually replace the next failed module.

Your last sentence further negates your position. When a GM hybrid codes, the battery is destroyed. Did you bother checking Jaime's thread?

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...ry-pack-31796/

He needed 40 replacement modules.

Almost all the cost of a new battery is in the modules. The rest is just copper and sheet metal. In ALL of the Toyota instances, you re-use the fans, relays, computers, etc. Suspect it's the same for the GM since it's made by Toyota. To put it another way, a new battery is just new modules, new interconnects (bus bars), new upper and lower case, and new main leads. You re-use everything else.

Lastly, as soon as consumers are cracking open high voltage batteries and electrocuting themselves, Toyota is hit with multi-million $ lawsuits.

How is selling individual modules in Toyota's best interest?

Why aren't you lamenting the fact that there isn't a vibrant aftermarket around transmission internal part sales? Given that the entire hybrid market is 1-2% of the total auto market and battery failures are still likely less than 10% on a population basis... so hybrid battery failures are about 0.1-0.2% of the auto aftermarket... I betcha more than 0.1-0.2% of transmissions are failing... I mean, why should anyone have to replace a transmission when it should be able to be repaired by measuring 40 voltages in anyone's garage with no special skills, tools or even experience, etc.?

Put some thought into it before you spout off at the mouth. You should be embarrassed.

 

Sigh I was not saying that the old bald tire that was replaced was "the one" that was going to fail, the point is that you are replacing an old worn tire with another old worn tire that possibly has a bit more tread but still not NEW. I guess what this amounts to is the shocking realization that you (a battery rebuilder/reconditioner) using old worn out batteries is akin to selling snake oil and you are simply feeling guilty about it? You could do worse though as some snakes are actually advertising and selling old worn out batteries as NEW at a premium price. I do agree though that Primearth EV (Toyota) should not sell individual modules to the general public, however I think they should make the modules available to legit battery builders so consumers can have a better choice of how to spend their dollars and not be stuck with old ratty **** batteries sold by snake oil salesmen. On the transmission analogy, the reason that i would not complain about that is the simple fact that full rebuild kits are readily available along with the specialized tools to do a full rebuild, many people including myself are very experienced in trans rebuilds. No Black Magic there. The closest thing to Black Magic that I have found (equivalent to brain surgery and rocket science) is HVAC work. If you are having trouble with these little simple batteries then you need to stay far far away from HVAC..........