Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Thanks that helps tremendously.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

CRW,

What's the verdict?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Its all good! She has been driving it for over a week and no warning lights. It drives normally again. I have to say I had my doubt's. I was Very happy. Thanks for all your help and patience. Very much appreciated. Charles

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I guess I should have asked for the evidence AND the verdict.

Did you end up replacing any subpacks?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Hi all! Wow! When I started this thread I never suspected it would continue for this long! LOL I finally broke down an purchased a new pack. Now i'm fighting a check engine light and an engine that's miss-firing. But the pack is great. Go figure.

I bow to those that continue to make strides in refurbishing their packs. It is a noble effort!

Be well!

Ross

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Ross,

LOL... it's a sickness... new chargers, techniques and OCD... that's all it takes.

Thanks again for the boost. The pack is still going strong... Not even a single recal since installation.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

thanks rossfree!

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I successfully reconditioned the pack on 06 civic. I bought a grid charger and can charge this pack up to the maximum. As I understand it its just as important to discharge the pack lower than the cars computer does. I am trying to find a way to slowly discharge the whole pack. I hooked up a couple of light bulbs(100w) in parallel and connected them to the main terminals. When I switched on the pack both bulbs blew. The immediate surge of power was too much. Does anyone have a way to discharge the whole pack?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Put them in series. In parallel the circuit resistance was cut in half. In series, it will be double.

I recommend the following:

1. Grid charge to peak voltage for about 24 hours.
2. Discharge to 120V with 2X 100W or 200W Tungsten bulbs - don't get the high efficiency type.
3. Replace with 2X 60W bulbs and discharge to < 2V (may take > 8 hours)
4. Briefly grid charge pack up to 132V (should only take a few minutes)
5. Disconnect grid charger, disconnect 12V for 30 seconds, reconnect 12V.
6. Start car and allow it to charge to full SOC
7. Do 5 & 6 a total of 3 times
8. Reconnect grid charger, top it off with the grid charger (5-8 hours). Conduct 5 & 6 again after grid charging.

The car charging occurs at a much higher current than the grid charger. The aftermarket folks "in the know" suspect that the higher charge rate is more successful at "waking up" inactivated material within the cells and can improve capacity and internal resistance.

Steve

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Thanks, its a very detailed process.I put them series and it blows just one bulb. In series . . . black goes to black on first bulb then black comes off of white side of bulb, it connects to black size of second bulb. White comes off of white side of second bulb as the return and completes the circuit. That's how I have it. Regular incandescent light bulbs. I think they are all supposed to be tungsten?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Would higher wattage bulbs make a difference. Not be blown so easy. Its getting harder to find incandescent.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

That should do it. I assume once the one bulb blows, they both go out?

batt (-) ---- bulb ---- bulb ---- bat (+)

You're running the bulbs at 150% of their rated voltage, so you're running them at a momentary 150W or so. You might try a higher wattage or a heavy-duty type of bulb. Also, check the wattage rating of your bulb holders? It sounds like it's wired right, but my gut says you're in parallel, or there is something atypical going on.

I've never had that problem. I tend to let the pack "rest" for an hour after charging. I run a 500W halogen that will typically survive 2 discharges. Another popular solution is a 300W X 2 halogen work lamp with the bulbs rewired in series.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I have a grid charger. I would like to hook up a Honda civic 2006 to the charger. I'm not sure how to put the leads on. I can see the red and black contacts. When I measure the voltage at those leads with the switch on it has no current. Is this the place to connect charger?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

black lead goes here:

http://hybridautomotive.com/insight/...hch2.1/17a.jpg

red lead can be attached at the main positive terminal or at the little screw on the same piece of metal.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Is there any reason not to simply use a resistor pack and a single bulb? you could even step down the voltage after all it is just moving electrons and the reason there is a load is two fold, one so there is a visible element so that you can see it is discharging and how much so and second to provide resistance so you are not simply shorting the pack.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Resistor impact on current is linear. You need a high watt resistor to take the pack power which means you'll take forever to get to <2V. Light bulbs act as a variable resistor. As they cool, their resistance drops and they continue to flow current though it's still lower than the initial.

One solution involves a 300R, 100W resistor. I don't have the patience for that. :)

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I'm going to try to breathe new life into my 08 HCH battery. I have 184K miles on it and the IMA light has been on since ~110K. The battery was out of warranty by that time and the dealer was no help at all, so I decided to drive it until it completely died and that day has finally come.

I live in the southwest so the high summer temps and the age of my poor old battery have combined to literally stop me in my tracks. My battery over temps and causes my car to stop running and once the shifter is placed in Park, it doesn't come out of park! I assume this is a safety feature to prevent my car from bursting into flames. I was able to disconnect the 12V battery to reset the error codes and at least drive it home (at night when the temp was lower).

I now have the hybrid battery out of the car and disassembled. I labeled the sticks and I'm finally ready to start this long process laid out by Ross and Steve. Thank you guys for all the posts.

My question right now is, can I drive my car without the hybrid battery installed? I know the Hybrid system charges the 12V battery, so with the hybrid battery disconnected will the 12V battery get charged? Will it leave me stranded on the roadside during rush hour traffic? Will it self destruct? lol

Thanks,
Jerry

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Hey Jerry.

Please do yourself a favor and abandon this effort. Reassemble your pack and re-install in your car. Please read the "cycling" and "grid charging" links in my signature.

You will get FAR better results over a weekend spent grid charging/discharging.

If you insist on pursuing this avenue, you can reassemble the pack and install without sticks back in the car. Just leave the master switch off. You will only get 12V charging from about 1500rpm to 3500rpm, and the red battery light will turn on when you're outside this range.

Again, I urge you to pursue a grid charge/discharge rather than the "traditional" stick cycling prescribed here and elsewhere.

Build your own grid charger and discharger here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...39o/edit#gid=0

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Thanks Steve,

I will take your advice and read the grid charger/discharger posts. I was under the impression that doing the stick-by-stick route would give me better results. Thanks for getting me on the right path.

On a side note, if you ever teach a course in civic hybrid battery maintenance sign me up. I live in Phoenix and could attend any time.

Jerry

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I'm in Mesa. If you'd like to borrow my grid charger/discharger setup, you're welcome to it. You will need to furnish your own bulbs and light fixtures.

Stick testing is warranted once you've established a pack will no longer respond to grid charging/discharging. Given the high mileage and the duration of your IMA light, it's hard to say what your results will be.

I am in the process of developing an as-removed testing methodology that is showing promise on my own packs and spares. It starts with a foundation of a grid charge and deep discharge. Follow with an in-car charge to max SoC, THEN grid charge to top it off (mostly for time savings and potential improvements from the higher charge rate). Then operate it normally. Once you notice a significant deterioration in mileage, excessive recals or an IMA light, do a 12V reset and car-charge to max SoC. Remove pack, disassemble and test sticks at 20A discharge. the difference between good and bad is usually very obvious. They are easily sorted into a "good" group, a "meh" group and a "pure crap" group.

I have tried multiple variations of the stand-alone stick testing scattered about the interwebz and found sticks can pass a variety of bench tests with flying colors including 100A load testing, and they can still go to crap in a mere 2 weeks. What it's coming down to is evaluating the individual cells as they are the principal failure mode. Individual cells are either suffering from higher self-discharge or internal resistance - not to a dramatic degree, but to a degree that causes a consistent deterioration compared to their brethren over time.

Again, given that you're local, I'm more than happy to let you borrow my equipment. I might make you sign a waiver to the effect of, "this stuff was built by an idiot with no consideration for safety. I acknowledge that I am using at my own risk... "

I've only shocked myself a couple times. It hurts. But I was being really stupid.

:)

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

I would love to borrow your setup. I'm going out of town for a few weeks, but after that would be great. Thank you.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Will the car be sitting the whole time? Might as well bring the pack over. Pulling the pack is the hardest part. Hooking it up and grid charging/discharging it will take me about 45 minutes... mostly because I check it obsessively.

You'll have a fresh battery ready when you get home.

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

That's awesome Steve. I can't believe you would do that for me!

I'm out of town until Sunday. Right now the pack is still apart. My son is using the iMax B6 to discharge/charge each stick. I showed him how to setup the charger and use your method of discharging 3 times at 1A-.5A-.2A to .1V and then charging to max. He has done 9 so far and 3 of them are suspect. The initial charges only got to 4123mAh, 3244mAh and one that only got to 144mAh. They all took charges up to the 6500-6900mAh after the discharges, so I'm hoping they are much better now.

I figured that with all my travel lately that I could do it the "slow" way with the equipment I have on hand and not have to build a grid charger. Should I finish with the way I have been going or just put it back together on Sunday and bring it to you on Monday?

Thanks again!

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

One thing about the Imax B6 is they will very frequently terminate charges early due to false delta V detection. If you have a genuine SkyRC, this probably isn't the issue, but the $25 Chinese knock-offs that are all over the place (including 14 of them in my house) definitely do. Essentially, if a charge terminates and the stick isn't warm to the touch at 100-120°F, then the charge cycle should be restarted. Sometimes, it helps to set the deltaV cutoff from the default of 4-5mV to 20mV. The best solution is to sh1tcan them and get a Turnigy Reaktor 300W. :)

when you say "9", do you mean 9 sticks (of 22) or 9 subpacks (of 11)?

The measure isn't how much they can take in charge, but how much they can discharge at high current. The B6 can't test this at all, and as above, its deltaV cut-off detection is flakey at best, which makes the charge numbers questionable.

Your choice. I don't mind doing it at all. Since some work has already been done, I recommend you charge each stick to delta V cutoff at 5A before assy into the pack. Set capacity cut-off to 7150 (1.3X capacity due to efficiency losses) and monitor temp if possible. Once they are comfortably warm to the touch, you can terminate regardless of what it says for capacity. What you should look for in that situation is a cell that is notably different from the rest... ±10-15°F... probably a problem and may mean that stick is suspect.

This will cut the initial grid charge time to probably 5-8 hours and I can have confidence the pack is reasonably top balanced. And you can top off all the sticks at 50W way faster than you can discharge them all at 5W with the B6.

Steve

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6
 

Hi, can you help me to set up the right parameters to put in b6 charger for charge and discharge 2006 civic hybrid battery? I got the full pack already disasembled, i am tryin to figure out the right parameters to do do it in teh right way y aprecciate any help you can provide me; thanks in advance

Re: Battery refurbish in process - IMAX B6