Greetings all (from a newbie) from eastern Ontario

Situation: I have driven a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid since 05 April 2007. I have been real happy with it and have an average of 4.8L/100km. The following phenomena did NOT make itself apparent during the first winter of ownership, however last winter and now this fall with the onset of cool weather:

When the ambient temperature (or wind chill in a highway speed scenario) dips below 13C, I get a single green bar of charge showing instead of where on the same stretch of road, same load, same speed in temps at 14C and above, I always get a more normal no green bars/one or 2 white bars of assist OR pure electric.

I noticed the effect in the early fall of last year. I tried to mitigate the effect with plugging all the holes in the front fascia with an elaborate air dam that I place behind the fascia and infront of the A/C condenser. This practice definitely helps with reaching a warm temp for auto-stop faster. I also notice that if all my driving is done in the city (i.e. no blast of cold air getting sucked into the air intake without my crude "pre-heat"), there is very little of this cruising around with very light throttle and "a single green bar of charge".

When I get onto an open road situation, and the intake air rate causes cold fall/winter/early spring air to be sucked into the engine bay faster than the ability for the air to be "pre-heated", I'll get the single green bar of charge under very light throttle (instead of pure electric or a few white bars of assist with some ICE).

The bars that show state of charge do not seem to have any bearing on this phenomena. This will occur when the state of charge is full, near full, halfway or low.

I had it into my dealer last February. The service manager, (a great guy who dealt with my rear suspension issue with a fast fix plus 2 new, free tires with no fanfare) went on a long test drive with me and agreed that "something was not right". We then tried the test drive with a computer attached to the OBD II socket to "soak up some data points", but that exercise proved inconclusive as no trouble codes could be found and the portable computer was having difficulty communicating with the car. By the time I set up a follow up appointment to try this all again with a different computer, the warm spring weather returned and effectively "hid" the phenomena.

Now that cool temps have returned, I have re-installed the air dam. I have now noticed the phenomenon again. The service manager wants to have another test drive and maybe try "a re-flash of the computer".

Since I am happy with the drivability of my car the rest of the time and since a "re-flash" does not seem to have been a help for other people with other IMA issues, I would really rather not try any software updates yet.

My garage is heated to 10C in the dead of winter and the engine bay is always "heated garage heat soaked" when I begin my morning drive to the YMCA.

The single bar of regen (under light throttle) will make itself apparent after about only 10 seconds outside my heated garage (as long as the outside temp is under 14C).

I have tried "pre-heat soaking" the throttle body assembly with a hair dryer prior to first drive of the day, and the single green bar phenomena will not happen for the first 20 seconds or so (until the cold air is sucked into the throttle body enough to chill it down).

The bottom line: a 3% decay in fuel economy (above and beyond the normal winter temp caused fuel economy decay that I have plotted on my home made Excel graphs) . Something in the throttle body gets "chilled" and "fooled" when it is cooler than 14C. Scenarios where a very light (feather light) throttle should give me pure electric drive OR the ICE with a few bars of assist, only a single green bar of assist shows. The state of charge bars can be full, partial, half, or low when this happens.

Any comments most welcome.

Cheers

Mike

 

To clarify: what are you doing with the gas pedal when you see this green bar? What about the iFCD? Are you in glide mode (valves closed, iFCD pegged at 0L/100km)?

I experience something similar and consider it normal. When I start out on cold mornings, I roll down the driveway I don't see any regen unless I use "S". I still don't see any regen until I'm up to speed, however, once I'm going the speed limit and let up on the gas, I will get 1 bar of green as my iFCD peggs out at 100mpg. If I try to go into glide mode (by adding gas pedal pressure to cancel regen), the 1 bar goes away and the iFCD drops to ~60mpg. Basically, I can either glide with 1 bar of regen, or re-open the valves and drive with no regen but use gas. Is this similar to what you are experiencing?

What happens if you drive for a longer time below 13c? Does the green bar ever stop showing up? If I go for a longer drive (say 20km+), I am able to glide while cancelling out the 1 bar of regen. The car just needs a little more time to warm up to that point in my case. (I also park in a semi-heated garage and use a grill block).

 

Im from Sask., and I get this all the time on my car. I suspect the 1 bar of charge is to help bring the batteries to operating temperature. I always ignore it and it goes away after the car is warmed up. Lets face it this car don't work well in Canadian winters from -20 to -38C. The car does not heat up, the windows do not clear - stay fogged up, and the fuel economy goes from mid 5's to mid 8's l/100km. Don't get me wrong this car works great in the summer and got 3.5 l/100 (67mpg US) on a trip from Edmonton this past summer. But does not work well in winter. Yes, I do use a block heater all the time.

Its an expensive mistake to own a car like this in this climate, and I bluntly tell people this fact who ask me how I like the car. Most people looked shocked after I tell them, but I for one don't want others to find this out after they buy the hybrid. I do know someone personally that traded their hybrid for a regular honda after last winter because it was so cold to drive during the winter.

In short you know its happening to another car. Maybe other Canadians will post their comments as well.

Good luck with your issues.

 

The few times that I have experienced that is when I have had the Auto AC on while on the highway. The system does what it can to maintain a higher state of charge to compensate for having it on. Having said that...are you sure your rear or front defroster isn't on? Or maybe even the regular AC? I know it sounds crazy b/c of the temps you're talking about, but there are times it can be on and you don't know it. It does sound like to me that there is a draw of power from somewhere and the IMA system is trying to maintain the state of charge to compensate for it.

Jess

 

Kristian.....

To clarify: what are you doing with the gas pedal when you see this green bar? What about the iFCD? Are you in glide mode (valves closed, iFCD pegged at 0L/100km)?

Depending on what the driving situation calls for...I may be gliding to a slow stop, or I may be cresting a shallow grade, or I may be driving steady state at 50 kph or 100 kph. I also find that while the IMA is warming up from a first start of the day or after being parked outside, I will get this single bar of green until I touch the brake peddle, then the single bar goes away but I have no braking regen available yet as the IMA is still too cool. After this initial stop and I'm up to speed again, back comes my single green bar...

I will get 1 bar of green as my iFCD pegs out at 100mpg.

I get the one bar and my iFCD is showing the ICE using fuel. Sure, the rate is only 2L/100 km at that moment, but in hot weather the same parameters would give me 0L/100 km and a few bars of assist....

What happens if you drive for a longer time below 13c? Does the green bar ever stop showing up?

It always comes back during profiles where, in warm weather, it is never seen and my iFCD will show about 2L/100 km instead of pegged at 0L/100 km.

Starman...

Im from Sask., and I get this all the time on my car. I suspect the 1 bar of charge is to help bring the batteries to operating temperature.

OK, so it sounds like this may be a normal cold weather ops phenomenon. I just never saw it the first winter I had the car, so I suspect that something might still be goofy. As I replied above, while the IMA is cold, I'll get this single green bar and when I hit the brake, that single green bar goes away, but there is no regen yet from braking due to the not yet warmed up IMA.

Have you tried the trick to put a wind-block in front of your A/C condenser to aid in warm up? I also never run the A/C in auto, I keep the fan speed on the lowest possible as to retain ICE heat. Perhaps a 12V portable inside car heater is called for....

Jess13....

The system does what it can to maintain a higher state of charge to compensate for having it on. Having said that...are you sure your rear or front defroster isn't on? Or maybe even the regular AC?

I confirm that I do not have the front and/or rear defroster on. I always drive with the AC deselected to "off" (unless it is above 27C at which time I drive with the AC "on" and with the fan speed at the lowest setting possible). I always use the fan speed at its lowest setting (unless the weather calls for higher fan speed to keep things clear)

It does sound like to me that there is a draw of power from somewhere and the IMA system is trying to maintain the state of charge to compensate for it.

But only when the air (or wind chill) entering the throttle body is below 14C. At 15C and above, I NEVER see this single green bar while driving this car, ever....

Much thanks for you comments.....

Cheers

Mike

 

Depending on what the driving situation calls for...I may be gliding to a slow stop, or I may be cresting a shallow grade, or I may be driving steady state at 50 kph or 100 kph. I also find that while the IMA is warming up from a first start of the day or after being parked outside, I will get this single bar of green until I touch the brake peddle, then the single bar goes away but I have no braking regen available yet as the IMA is still too cool. After this initial stop and I'm up to speed again, back comes my single green bar...

Exactly how mine works. In fact it has been doing this the last couple of days in the morning when my car is parked outside. Its been only -4 to -6C at nights.

Have you tried the trick to put a wind-block in front of your A/C condenser to aid in warm up? I also never run the A/C in auto, I keep the fan speed on the lowest possible as to retain ICE heat. Perhaps a 12V portable inside car heater is called for....

I have tried stuffing pipe wrap in the grill last winter. This showed some slight inprovement. This year Im going to try lifting the cover off the top of the grill rad area and put cardboard right against the AC condenser. Maybe the car heater would work. Scraping the inside of the windows reminds me of the '70 VW beetle I owned. At least it had good heat from the gas heater, when it woked. Ha!

 

Exactly how mine works. In fact it has been doing this the last couple of days in the morning when my car is parked outside. Its been only -4 to -6C at nights.

So I'll assume that in our cool climate this is a normal function........

I have tried stuffing pipe wrap in the grill last winter. This showed some slight inprovement. This year Im going to try lifting the cover off the top of the grill rad area and put cardboard right against the AC condenser. Maybe the car heater would work. Scraping the inside of the windows reminds me of the '70 VW beetle I owned. At least it had good heat from the gas heater, when it woked. Ha!

That is what I did. I removed the plastic black trim over the space between the A/C condenser and the front fascia. I also loosened off 2 metal hangers that bolt into the unibody frame member that the condenser mounts to (you'll see what I mean if you go this route). This allows "wiggle room" in that zone. I placed an old election sign (Green party!) infront of the condenser to prevent any damage to any of the fins. Then I placed a (trimed to size) old workout mat (roll up type, foam rubber, about 1/8" thick) infront of same that acks as a block for all the holes in the front of the car.

Thanks

Cheers

Mike

 

I think you guys are talking about stuff that is well known. You can find the information and tables in this link.
I think msantos is a canadian and he seems to love the car in the winter. I guess you got to know abit about it to really know whuts normal and whats not.

ks

 

Now that I think about, MSantos did tell me that to try and get the IMA to warm up faster on very cold mornings, to tap on the gas pedal when you're below 25 mph, to get a single bar of regen. I've been able to do it a couple of times, but if you're getting it 'automatically', that's great. It doesn't get as cold here in Charlotte, which may contribute to why I can't get it to drop that bar of regen.

Jess

 

I think you guys are talking about stuff that is well known. You can find the information and tables in this link.
I think msantos is a canadian and he seems to love the car in the winter. I guess you got to know abit about it to really know whuts normal and whats not.


From looking at the article from the link it looks like msantos is from Manitoba, which is just as cold if not colder than here due to the fact that they do not get the Chinooks as we do here. I tried all his tips with pipe wrap in the grill and stuff but the civic is still very cold to drive and the windows fog up so you have to scrape them on the inside. I do know what's normal because I have had many different cars and trucks over the years and never had a vehicle as cold as this one or miserable to drive when its -25C or colder.