Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

Get your 0-20 Mobil1 at Wallmart.

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/0-20wOil.jpg

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

More anecdotes, which mean essentially nothing.

Your analogy is incorrect: oil is not good and then suddenly bad (or "empty" like a "roll of paper towels" in your analogy). It gradually loses lubricity and collects contamination, becoming less efficient at its job.

And for you whiners about my using a limited resource: give me a break. I recycle my used oil, and it's only 3 qts. An ICE runs better (read: MORE EFFICIENT) with good, clean oil. I would venture I am using less than you, just for that fact. How's that for an anecdote?

Now, those of us who buy a hybrid and leave it running while they are out of the car to do errands...THAT is silly.

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

Given your 'analysis' when should we change our oil? You are about to change your oil for the second time at about 5,000 mi. Since oil doesn't go bad instantaneously Orient Express' analogy is invalid. What if I suggested you change your oil every 50 miles! Given your statement, this analogy would be valid. But I doubt the oil at 50 miles would be less efficient at its job that you would be using less than us. I believe we all agree a 50 mi oil change interval is too short and you dispute Orient Express changing his oil every 10 to 15k mi is too long. He also states that he has his oil tested and all is well.

Bottom line is no proof has been provided on when one should change his oil. How did you determine that your oil is less efficient enough to warrant that it be changed at 2500mi intervals?

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

I hate to fight with an unarmed person.... It is like a debating with a Republican. Their narratives tend to be rehashes of the golden oldies from the 20th Century.

Sure one can change their oil at 50 or 5000 miles and not have a problem, except that they are still wasting money, resources, and time. Sure back when cars had distributors and carburetors, oil did not have the additives they have today, and had a very limited service life.

But things improve, and so it is with engines and oil. In a world where spark plugs last 100K miles, and other fluids have a "life of vehicle" service interval, oil has kept pace. Seat of the pants, "looks clean to me", shade tree mechanics are an artifact of the last century.

Today, it is preferable to and convenient to look at actual oil use data and make maintenance decisions that are the most optimal and efficient.

I would recommend that everyone take the time to get their oil analyzed to validate that it is OK to use it to its full potential.

Knowledge is a powerful tool, it can set you free, and help you use resources to their full potential.

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/30Koilc...ts-editied.jpg

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

Oh, my...what would the whiners say if I did such a thing...wasting all that oil?

Seriously: exaggeration of my point of view is not argument.

I did not write that. I changed it first after 1k, and will change it at 5k intervals afterward.

I don't care what one person's oil analysis says, that is their specific situation and there are too many variables in driving styles and locations. For instance, one person may make 50 1-mile trips in 120deg heat, while another drives 100 miles once a week in no higher that 70deg. What if someone only drives 3k mi/year? No oil should stay in a engine for 3 years.

No one person can say what is best for all conditions, no matter how smug they can sound.

If you are going to err, err on the side of more frequent than not frequent enough...that's my advice.

What do I know? I'm just an engineer AND a biochemist, and someone who has actually done all his own mechaniking and preventive maintenance for decades now.

Practically speaking, if you follow the 10k recommendation, you will probably be fine for however long you own the car. I just choose more a more frequent schedule because that is my choice. Oil does degrade with use AND time and 5k is my compromise. And on the original question, I still have yet to see anything convincing about synthetic advantages to justify the cost difference. I will concede that 0w-20 is only available in synthetic, as far as I know.

Oh, and remember what they say about opinions and ....;)

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

Does your oil analysis and testing support your oil change frequency or are you just postulating that it is optimal?

With the new advances in lubrication materials, it is easy to use assumptions that may have been valid in the last century, only to have them rendered obsolete or irrelevant in today's environment and with today's lubrication materials.

I'd sure like to see the data for your driving situation to see how it stacks up to the results that have been posted on this forum and others. Peer review is a good thing, except when your argument is unsustainable.....

As new advances in materials become available, advice that might have been relevant at one point can be rendered obsolete overnight.

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

All I know is that I had a 96 jeep cherokee and changed the oil every 25,000 miles until I sold it at 196,000 miles. No problems. What I used up in gas, I made up for in oil / environmental savings. What it boils down to is the risks you are willing to take with your vehicle.

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

FACT: Oil is a limited resource. Using more of it than necessary does not result in a positive net effect on the environment.

FICTION: The ICE efficiency gains (MPG) of "cleaner" oil ultimately offset the additional waste resulting from excessive oil changes.

Let's take a look at this, shall we?

Assume 100,000 miles of operation and 5k oil changes vs. 10k changes:

If the efficiency gain of frequent oil changes yields, conservatively and hypothetically, 0.2 MPG savings on a typical 45 MPG average, then this would represent 10 gallons of fuel saved over 100,000 miles.

Therefore: ICE FUEL SAVINGS w/frequent oil changes = 10 gallons of refined gasoline saved, or roughly one tankful over 100,000 miles

Now, 5k oil changes also require an additional 34 quarts of refined oil over 100,000 miles. Bonus note: 34 quarts = 8.5 gallons of new motor oil.

However, as the Cat in the Hat puts it, "But that is not all. Oh, no. That is not all..."

Don't forget, THE NATURAL RESOURCES USED TO CREATE 34 extra new oil bottles manufactured + 34 extra quarts of new oil processed at the refinery + other natural resources burned to manufacture and distribute said new oil + 10 new oil filters manufactured + 34 extra quarts of old oil returned to recycling + other natural resources used to filter, convert, package, and distribute recycled oil product + 34 extra empty oil bottles returned to recycling + 10 old oil filters returned to crushing and disposal + other natural resources used to clean, melt, package, and distribute recycled plastic and steel material

...were ALL expended to make frequent oil changers "feel better" about excessive and unnecessary maintenance. The energy chain doesn't start and end at your Walmart shelf, friends.

Which reminds me, I have a box of 12 one-liter bottles of water in the garage that I haven't used. I'm feeling the urge to open them all, pour them down the drain, and get those empty bottles and box lickity-split into the recycling chain where they'll do the environment some good!

"That is what the cat said...
Then he fell on his head!"

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

OrientExpress is one of those people at Green Hybrid that really knows his stuff and does not take much to know he is right. Engineer? I doubt it. I will take his word over yours any day. You sig gives it all away pretty bad too :confused:

Re: Synthetic Anyone?
 

clindguini basically covered what I wanted to say. I can't imagine that the more frequent oil changes improve your fuel economy enough to justify the increased motor oil usage, let alone the additional energy used in refining, transportation, etc that he brings up.

Unfortunately the 3000 mile oil change interval will be a hard thing to overcome, and dealers aren't helping since they want to perform those oil changes.

I just can't wait when we have an opportunity to have more electric cars so we can do away with all this ludicrous maintenance altogether.