Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

hello - got 07 Accord Hybrid. AC is fine except for hot summer months where it takes extra long time to cool down. Tending to think it is refrigerant issue. By looking at the fine print of R134a refrigerant can (ACPRO in autozone), got to know they are not compatible with Hybrid vehicle.

Here is better explanation of why-

http://hondakarma.com/threads/hybrid...65/live?page=1

Does anyone have an experience here for Honda Hybrid vehicles (2nd gen Civic hybrid or Accord Hybrid) on what product to buy / refill the AC refrigerant?

Getting to dealership is the last option, hoping someone had gone thru this refill process.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Have serviced 2X HCH2 with the hybrid pulley/electric compressor including compressor replacement, evac and recharge.

Buy the $4.88 can of SuperTech STRAIGHT R-134a from Walmart.

The issue is the oil. It takes a magic oil that's ridiculously expensive but completely non-conductive unlike the typical PAG oil in servicing kits or systems.

Plain R-134a WITHOUT oil or any kind of o-ring sealant is absolutely fine. Use a NEW filler hose or manifold gauge set that has never been attached to a traditional R-134a system.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Hm I just made the potentially expensive mistake of putting some AC PRO R134a which has PAG oil and additives into my HCH2. The AC is blowing 5 degrees cooler now, but seems like this was a big mistake on my part so I am going to take it into a shop to see if they can flush it with POE or vacuum and recharge. The shop says they can do Hybrid compressors and seem to think that vacuum and charge is the way to go.

Honda Factory Service manual (should have read this before I went to walmart!) says to replace every component of the AC system if there is any contamination with non-spec oil but that seems like total overkill. That includes compressor, condenser, evap, etc. As far as I can tell, the PAG oil will damage the compressor windings and therefore potentially cause shocks, but I am not sure why a flush and charge would not be sufficient to recover the insulating properties.

I wonder if I should take it to the dealer instead, but that would be super expensive and they might actually want me to follow the factory procedure.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

I wish they would change their warning from the tiny print at the bottom of the can.

Dealer wanted $2K to replace only the compressor. I don't think the dealer is an option.

Damage occurs and it's almost impossible to completely clear the system of contamimated oil.

Flushing the system of contaminants is a challenge in a normal system. Do it with Honda oil will make you crap your pants. That stuff is expensive.

You might try the oil that claims to be compatible as a flushing fluid.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

I should look for a flush, but I don't think it is as bad as the service manual says. Here's a company that did a experience by deliberately using PAG oil in a Prius and it was fine at least for the few days they tested it.
http://www.fixhybrid.com/comp-oil/

After all, PAG still has 1Mohm resistance whereas POE has 10Mohm. The actual problem appears to be the speculation that PAG will degrade the insulation on the windings.

In fact I cannot find a single case of IMA light coming on due to PAG oil in the AC line, the only references are in the service manual and people speculating. not a single case of an actual documented instance.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Not sure about HCH2, but check prius chat. Since I started reading there 9/2015, I recall at least one compressor failure following contamination. I looked at a local Prius on Craigslist where they're compressor wasn't working with a P0AA6 code that tripped a few months after they used a charge kit not intended for hybrids.

The Prius compressor is higher voltage and much higher power than the HCH2 as it's pure electric and likely more susceptible than the IMA system.

It's absolutely worth trying to flush first. I suspect correction shortly after contamination with minimal use between will likely resolve it.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Thanks!

Well it the headaches of my own stupidity + owning a hybrid is rearing its head a bit here.

I have 2 local shops that I love and use often. 1st shop I called was not aware that hybrids required a different oil, and when I pressed into the details the service writer talked to the technician and then I was told I need to go to Honda because they can't service the special oil. :(
2nd shop who was a Honda-only shop for 20 years told me that they can do flush and charge, but the tech says I should be using PAG oil. I said Honda factory service manual calls for POE and they said the service manual must be outdated. :omg:

I'm gonna call the Honda dealer now. Times like this I wish I lived in a more crunchy granola area.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Run from those shops. Branch out and try to find shops familiar with hybrid a/c systems.

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

Funny thing. Local dealer says, "It's fine, don't worry about it."

I think I put in about 3 oz (not sure if wt or fl) of the ACPRO. MSDS says 5~15vol% of this is PAG. So then i'm looking at about 0.3 oz of PAG oil, with ~4oz of original oil I have 10% contamination? Given the strong language in the service manual seems like even 1% contamination requires system replacement.

Dealer says if I want to, I can ask for a vacuum and fill for $180.

AC is still blowing 45degrees F :shade:
I suppose is the car blows up next week it'd be sad. :omg:

Re: Accord Hybrid - AC refrigerant question
 

I almost like your dealer. $180 is a great price for a dealer evacuation and charge. The oil alone is $60 for 50mL. Personally, I'd do it.