So where did the extra $200-300 show up in the deal? The two most obvious cuplrits would be (a) lower discount on the car purchased, or (b) HIGHER discount on the car traded in.


Money in a car deal is like matter in the universe: you can't simply make it disappear, it only takes another form

 

In AZ, at least the dealers I have purchased from, you never even SEE the doc fees until you get into the finance department, when the "deal" is already done and signed. The salesperson is not involved. Hard to negotiate at that point - you have already agreed on the deal. You can, of course, always walk out, but by that point, you already have gone through the hard work of making the deal, choosing the car, etc etc so it becomes harder to just walk away. No one I know enjoys the act of making a car deal work, and I know I don't want to go through it TWICE for one car.....

These car dealers here in Phoenix are usually so high volume that they really dont care if you walk out at that point, because someone else is probably standing in the lot willing to buy that car if you dont buy it.

 

The important lesson is to always ask, before closing the deal, if there are any fees or charges you have not been told about.

 

I agree completely. Everybody makes money. It's just one form or another.

 

I always haggle on the price, and get the price I like then after the deal is settled I tell them I will not pay the charges or they lose the deal. If you didn't haggle on the price first then yes, the extra $200 $300 would show up somewhere on the deal.
For my truck I paid $150.00 over invoice, (the price the dealer paid for the truck) not MSRP. This price was 10,200 below MSRP. Then I told them I would not pay $499 in BS doc fees. My price on the truck stayed the same and I did not pay the fees. Same with my car but I didn't get nearly the discount either. The higher the vehicle price, the more discount can be taken off.
Oh and I never trade in a car. Trade in is where you lose big time! I always sell the car privately.

 

Do you return to the dealer for service/have a relationship with them?

Sometimes "relationship" is worth some dollars on the deal if they know you'll be back for oil changes and (back in the old days) tune ups.

But if you were just going to buy-and-run, I'd suck every last dollar out of you that I could, because I will never see you again!!


(I'm one of those oddball Brand-Loyal buyers, stick with the same marque, stick with the same store, unless either the company or the store p!$$ses me off (There's a story there on why I would NEVER buy a Toyota, no matter how good it was, just because of the jerkface local dealer.))

 

I never paided a doc fee as a line item untill I bought Hondas. Then both where 49 or 59 bucks.

If I charged doc fees on boilers, pumps, chillers and there controls I wouldnt sell a bloody thing. There is alot more in docs and transaction than a darn car anyday. There are O&M's, frieght, cert's, legal stuff contracts. All sorts of stuff. CD's to burn, it just goes on and on. But if we charged anything for all that we would lose the sale.

It common to see $100 to $300 doc fees here esp. on asian and german cars at there respective dealers.

 

When I was selling, this is exactly how it would have gone down. If someone didn't want to pay the $295 doc fee, they'd pay $295 more for the car (although, they'd have no idea that was happening). Actually, what they probably would have done is show a "$295 discount" on the selling price to offset the $295 doc fee and you'd pay it anyway. Money the finance folks make (doc fee, warranty, etc.) is a seperate pot of money than the car sale. Those fees are how finance folks earn a living. I'd bet the doc fee is nothing more than what is needed to cover the salary of those folks and has little or nothing to do with the actual overhead of "documentation".