Wayne,
Frankly, after reading your post, er...raaaa...looking at your mileage posts at bottom..I dont believe you, especially since I had the Mazda equilvilant of your Ford Ranger...37 MPG? Absolutely not, unless someone was towing you with your motor idling. I cannot for the life of me understand why people would want to get on here and exaggerate about how many miles per gallon their car gets. This creates false hopes from new buyers and is not fair to them. Since I had already logged about 500 miles on HCHs before I bought my car, I knew what to expect. I have two friends that have HCHs and both are reporting around 42 mpg overall on their cars.

And as for other comments, I live in hot sunny south in a town with a terrible traffic light system. I bought my car with air and will use it, with econ mode most of time. I have changed my driving habits slowed down, raised air pressure to my borderline comfort levels, anticipate lights, etc, BUT I am not going to an extreme. Having driven thousands of miles in the last year moving cars/trucks I have had plenty of time to check the mileage on those that have mpg guages and have only found one that exceeds EPA road mileage and that is a Chevy Malibu 4 cy. new style car. I dont think the HCH or HAH will do it except for downhill coast. I have not driven the HAH, but a friend did and he did not see any 47 mpg, more like around 30-32 on road at 55-65 mph. It was new, so maybe it will improve like my HCH may improve.

 

Believe it.

Its mostly in how you drive it. Not in the car. I had one 20 mile trip in a civic hybrid at night under ideal conditions when I got 69mpg on the gauge. Its all a matter of conditions and how much you try. I'm sure if I tried I could get 8mpg out of my car too. I choose to try my best and I'm getting close to and sometimes exceeding EPA.

You hang around here long enough and read and put into practice what is said and you will become a believer. (boy that sounds like an infomercial

I'd like to hear a 1 year report from you I bet it will be totaly opposite.

I'm not saying you will be at the top of the list just that your mileage will be relative to how much effort YOU put into it.

Edit: Ohh. I just had an idea. Go to my site http://hybrid.wrathof.com and download the bittorent file of a typice trip for a hypermiler. Its the next best thing to being in the passenger seat next to a hypermiler.

 

Hi DTDriver:

___You are too funny … The lmpg for the Ranger P/U was performed throughout the Chicago winter! She is good for 40 + when driven in summer conditions so apparently you failed to read the Notes? Even the MDX hits 30 + out on the highway and 25 + around town in the summer now and that is a heavy - 4WD Lux SUV - monster!

___Do you think we are playing games here? Let me put it to you another way. Just because your limited experience dealing with real world FE (meaning none) means something to you, it means absolutely 0 to those of us that prove what an automobile of whatever type can do day in and day out. I gave you good advice and you came back and threw a punch? You still have much to learn and by your own admission, you are in Pee-Wee ball compared to many here that perform on a major league level. When you do learn something about which you no little, feel free to throw all the jabs you want. Right now, you haven’t a clue.

___As for proof, here we go again. First off, why don’t you download Lakedude’s video. That should wake you up. Next, why not check out some of the screenshots. The Attempt … thread here at Greenhybrid in the Insight specific forum is a good one? GreenAndBlue saw his almost brand new and not entirely setup for hypermileage AH hit > 45 mpg after 139 miles with me behind the wheel in 50 degree temps and unfavorable winds for over half the segment just 2 months ago. EricBecky saw my Insight’s FCD when I went to a Hybrid Group Meet early last year showing 94.x mpg for the segment from my home to the meet and it was in the high 40’s to mid 50’s IIRC. GreenAndBlue is coming over tomorrow so we can trade cars for the week. Not only is he going to see my non-hybrid Accord’s TC showing 51.5 mpg over the last 655.4 miles (it registers about .4 - 1.0 mpg low from actual), he is going to drive off in the MDX with the FCD showing 28.0 mpg after just 2.7 miles with my trip from the gas station to home this morning. I got caught at 2 lights and the exit from the station or I might have hit 30! I do not know of any gas stations in my area that are uphill from me but the Shell I fill from is downhill from my house by ~ 30’ in elevation.

___You can drive anyway you like and receive the FE you deserve. Selling everyone else’s car or capabilities short is where you crossed over the line. Think what you want but the EPA estimates for every car I have ever driven are so far below the actuals available as to make the EPA estimates a joke. I truly hope you try to learn something before you post such non-sense here again. To think I almost hit the same FE in a non-setup – 04 Buick LeSabre rental while loaded up with people and gear in Phoenix last summer as you do with your HCH? Maybe you should have purchased one of those boats instead?

___Just to let you know, a ULEV based HCH w/ a stick is good for > 1,100 miles under the right conditions. You will never see it but Lakedude and Rjbarlow might. Hot_Georgia_2004 could as well if he had a stick.

___As an edit, sorry to all for being such an @$$ with this post

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Too bad he doesn't live near northern illinois so you could take him for a trip eh?

 

Hi Tbaleno:

___Yes, that is too bad.

___Hey, if GreenAndBlue and I do the swap early enough tomorrow, do you want to take a ride? You live in the city proper, right? If so, isn’t there a car park at Fullerton and the Kennedy??? We could meet up there. We could take our chances with some deep inner city hypermiling with your HCH while we make our way to Demon Dog’s under the El on Fullerton down near DePaul? I like their Polish and its almost worth the trip just for the meal Afterwards, we can take the AH for a ride out of the city on the Kennedy, up the Eden’s, and then out to the Tri-State for some serious - higher speed - hypermiling fun …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Wayne,

I've driven that stretch and can understand it's quite possible to achieve those MPG # with the LeSabre. I actually used to have a Olds LSS with the same motor.

Who knows what DTDRIVER's conditions exactly are, except him.

If you came to my next of the woods you would probably get slightly better mileage than me but chances are you would be putting yourself and others in great danger. On top of that you'd probably be giving Hybrids a very bad name. The speed limit on the ONLY road I can pull out into to get to Point B is 55mph. From 0600 to 0900 it is bumper to bumper 70MPH+ traffic. There is no efficient way to get into it. That is the main factor that kills my mileage. Next factor is when I do the speed limit I block the flow of traffic, it almost can't be done, I do what I can do and not block traffic. It's crazy as everyone does 15+ over the speed limit on a 4 lane. Just last week a woman was killed 1 mile from my house because she was doing the speed limit and one of the idiots cut in front of her at 70+. She swerved too much, went across the median and hit an oncoming truck. Needless to say, I will be moving next year to get away from this road.

My commute is 6 miles, A/C must be on (when wife is in car and we carpool, she's always there), acceleration is VERY BRISK up to 70mph to merge into traffic (there is no merging lane), load in car is pretty heavy too - I'm no girly lightweight pencilneck. These are the factors as to why my mileage is only 45-47. The only reason they even get up that high is because I take the car out on longer trips to even out the mileage. If I only used the car for the work commute 40mpg is easily considered normal.

Just try to see someone else's POV. I can understand you're so clouded with your great #'s that you can't honestly see how some else has such bad FE. Last time I was up that way with my HCH I easily exceeded what I get back home and I was driving harder. After that I finally understood...Location, Location, Location!

Have fun,
AL

 

Hi Rigger:

___The next time you are away from that segment near your home where you can hypermile with the best of us, hit 104 - 109 + for a tank and then you can say whatever you wish

___As for DTDriver, he called me a liar as well as all the other innuendo’s attached. His post in regards to anyone hypermiling is so far off the mark that it borders on absolute ignorance.

___Let me finish off the night with my own take on the FE anyone can receive if they learn, practice, adjust, practice, re-adjust, and practice some more …

___In the last 3 years, I have taken the MDX loaded up to the headliner when practically brand new from Illinois, to Pike’s Peak, to Phoenix, to the Grand Canyon, to San Francisco and back and received great FE (25.1 mpg which is better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven her from the inner city depths of Chicago (Children’s Memorial just off Fullerton) to home in the longest 3 hour traffic nightmare anyone anywhere could imagine just last month and still received great FE (27.1 mpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven a rented – non-setup - Buick LeSabre from Phoenix to the Hoover dam, to Las Vegas, to Yosemite, to San Francisco, to L.A., and back to Phoenix while sitting in a few monster terrific traffic nightmares with great FE (33.2 mpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven the perfectly setup Ford Ranger P/U from Illinois to Kissimmee/Orlando to Sebring, Florida and back with great FE (40.3 mpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have also driven her in temps as low as -2 degrees F back and forth to work locally and still received great FE including our ever present Chicago Tri-State and I-55 nightmares (37.4 lmpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven the perfectly setup Insight from Illinois to Massachusetts as well as locally in some of Chicago’s finest, back and forth to Champaign, and even St. Louis a few times with great FE (92.8 lmpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven the Insight around the subdivision for 1 to 2 mile stints all winter long in below freezing temps with great FE (70.1 mpg just beating the EPA highway estimates). I test drove a non-setup Accord I4 in perfect 70 + degree temps in an ~ 50/50 city/highway mix last fall with great FE (44.1 mpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven the brand new Accord back from Massachusetts as well as back and forth to work through the Chicago nightmare to a perfectly smooth sailing non-traffic drive in just below freezing temps to excellent 75 + degree temps with great FE (46.0 lmpg so far which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I have driven a rented and non-setup Avis owned Mercury Mountaineer back from Champaign to home with great FE (27.9 mpg which is far better then the EPA highway estimates). I test drove a Prius II from cold in 32 degrees F temps. I only hit 54.x mpg over a 6 - 7 mile around town segment. That was the only automobile that I can remember not hitting the EPA combined or the best EPA city/highway numbers in a long time and not only was it not setup, brand new, and in freezing temps, it was the first time I had ever driven one!

___If you want to see high speed hypermiling, the following should help:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/image184.html

___If you want to read about and see slow speed world record hypermiling, the following should help:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...empt.1488.html

___If you want to see below freezing temps and blizzard conditions Hypermiling, the following should help:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/image133.html

___If you want to read about mountain climbing - hypermiling, the following should help:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/...=asc&start=135

___In my experience over the last 3 years of hypermiling, I don’t care where you live, what kind of traffic you drive in, what kind of obstacles you have to overcome on a daily basis. A hybrid in particular can overcome these setbacks better then any other automobile and still achieve hypermileage status. Sure there will be adjustments that have to be made and you may or may not be inside the envelope of your neighbor but speed limits are speed limits and because the guy next to you is doing 70 in a 55 - 65 does not mean you have to. Chicago’s Tri-State is otherwise known as the I-294 International Speedway and I seem to get along just fine hypermiling at well above the limits, at the limits, and at the minimums depending on what I am trying to achieve and in what vehicle I am achieving it. Having driven the upper East Coast, all over the West Coast, mountainous regions throughout Colorado and parts of the Appalachian’s, desert South West in mid-summer, Midwest year round, and through much of Florida just 3 months ago, what more do you want me to add? I am sure there are places that a hypermiler will be left naked and completely out of his or her element. With that, make the adjustments and over time your FE will rise just as everyone who reads a few hours worth of hypermiling threads here at Greenhybrid will see as well.

___Boy what a night … Have a great night and Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

DTDRIVER:
Rediculously high MPG is entirely possible in the HCH and is proven everyday by many drivers. I've taken great pains to post detailed specific tips for greater FE in an HCH and am greatly satisfied when people improve their mileage with them and say "thank you."

What can I say to someone that claims it is not possible for anyone to get extremely high FE because they personally haven't and discredit the people who have achieved this?


Al:
Very occasionally I find myself running late and need to abandon my usual route and jump right onto the two lane 70MPH grassy median freeway only 2 miles from the house. In the basins I'll usually get up over 65 but over the peaks of hills it might sag to around 64, in heavy traffic.
(Light traffic those numbers are less)
I'll try to safely follow a big truck or stay behind a slower driver, always in the right lane. I've found that traffic often flows in waves with gaps inbetween. Depending on current conditions I'll slow below 65 in these gaps, and very gradually speed up a little as the next wave approaches. Most people follow at a good distance behind for a mile or two then move over and pass. Some stay behind for long distances. (20-30 miles)

The 70MPH zone I travel is 20 miles long, almost all are long drawn out inclines.
Then the freeway turns to a 5 lane 65MPH limit with cement barrior median.
I jump straight over into the Right lane and reduce my speed to 56-68.
When I use my usual route this is where I enter the freeway, onto the 65MPH limit.
When I enter I'll usually have averaged around 60-63MPG on the dash, and despite freeway speeds I'll usually gain 3-5 more before I park.
Sure, almost everyone eventually passes but so what? I'm all the way to the Right and they have 5-6 other lanes to use.
The last 15 or so miles into the City of Atlanta is 55MPH limit and I'll do 52-60, still in the far Right lane. Same deal, when people want to go around they use the other 6 lanes.
I'm sure some people notice that I'm taking it easy on my drive but so what? It's infinitely less stress, achieving fantastic FE and having a great time- among other benefits.
Over the last 16 months and 40K miles I can only count on 1 hand the number of drivers who appeared even slightly irritated. I've never noticed anyone really angry. That's pretty good I think.

Your 70MPH road sounds extremely dangerous - I'm sure you are doing what's best and I don't presume to suggest otherwise. Was that lady driver going slow and clogging up the Left lanes? If so, it might help to explain how she ended up crossing the median.

It's no doubt that some conditions are great for easy FE while others pose more of a challenge, but doesn't mean fantastic results can't be had there as well.
That's where experience, training, implementation and patience come to into play.
Not speaking of myself- I'm just a "Young padawan learner" compared to some.
But with continued experience and training we'll get there.

This morning I'm rendering the final PIP portion of my video that shows the road, rear view, FCD, attitude (uphill-downhill), CHRG-REGEN gauges and more on my commute into Atlanta. I hope to have it completed in the next few weeks.
If you can download when it's available you'll see what I mean by all this.

 

I live Houston and I have had tanks in the 58 range. No that wasn't with the a/c on but with the a/c on I get low 50's. Yes it can and does happen.Kevin

 

Hi Wayne,
All I'm saying is there are some situations where people can't acheive EPA FE status. There is no way around it. These are very few, I know my situation is one of those if I only travelled my work commute. Since I drive elsewhere that's how my #'s rise.

I'm not a newbie to hybrid driving or fuel efficient driving for that matter. The first day my Honda dealer got an Insight I was the first test driver. The first day my Toyota dealer got in the Prius tester (pre-production) I was test driving that too. Only until the HCH came out I got a Hybrid, I've had mine 24 months now. Honestly though, for the most part though I've been more of a hot rodder before my hybrid ownership. I've lurked here for sometime and read those threads. Thank's for posting them as I know it'll be a great help to some others who haven't gotten a chance to read them.

One variable I forgot to add is we have very gradual hills here. Just enough where you must use assist, but there isn't enough hill to get any regen out of it. On a side note: The same 6 mile stretch of road I used to hit hypermiler status when I worked at night and came home when there was no traffic and went to work when traffic wasn't too bad. I was able to go the speed I picked, also there was normally a dew in the air (I know there are threads on that, water injection).

My best tank ever was 55mpg, I of course was no where near home. I was in North Carolina. Best tank at home was 52mpg. I was off work for the month so I wasn't required to commute and my drive was off peak hours. Now I'm just bragging and I have no where near the braggin' rights that you have Wayne.

Either way, since my post #'s are low I'm The New Guy here so I really don't want my first few posts to be all negative. Sorry about that. I just hope you can understand there are very few instances where some people can't acheive those stellar numbers like yours and they struggle to get EPA #'s. Some of the 40-42mpg numbers qouted are believable. Most however MUST change their driving habits and their FE will improve.


Hello Hot_Georgia,
I tried to download the video before but I'm a dial-up used so it'll have to be one of those "round tuit" things. Actually one reason my FE has improved recently is they added a light about a mile up the road which leaves a small gap for me to pull into traffic. It's a small gap but I no longer have to floor it up to 70mph. My road is a small 4 lane. Not sure if it's been voted the most dangerous road in America yet. During the summer we lose about 4 people a week on a 20 mile stretch. My 6 mile commute is within that 20 miles.

This site has thrived into a great site so I'll quit argueing and bringing negativity here. I agree to disagree that not all people can achieve EPA #'s. Most are capable.

AL