you can always add the single cup holder accessory if ya really want it:

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/produ...sedan-interior

...at least, i think it'll fit, anyone know for sure?

 

KLC, I am beginning to work on a mod that would give me an ICE off button/switch somewhere on the dash, within arms reach. I don't like using the key/ignition switch so much for reboot and glide mode (what my kids call driving "soap box derby style". As for what its called, I never call that a "forced autostop".

When you turn the key off, then on, it reboots the ecu, but the car does not act as it does in autostop. In autostop the IMA is still on and the battery back pack is supplying electricity to the 12 volt and the car. Notice how fast the windows go up or down in autostop? Now try turning the key off then on. Notice how slowly the windows move? When you use the key to reboot, the 12 volt seems to be powering the car without the help of the battery back pack. I don't know why, but it is.

Also, in auto stop you can restart the engine by putting the car in gear. This is because the IMA is still on and waiting for the signal to restart using the battery back pack for power (notice how the radio keeps working on restart from an autostop?). In reboot mode, you must use the key to restart and the 12 volt battery supplies all of the power (notice how the radio dies out until the car is started in this mode?), or you need to put it in gear and let the clutch out to use the car's momentum to restart the engine if you are still moving.

I think the term "forced autostop" as used here is not only an oxymoron, but it also has almost no distinction from what is also called a reboot, and it doesn't behave like an autostop at all.

I think reboot is the better term for what we are describing, turning the key off and then on again. I use the term "forced autostop" to describe what happens when I stop at a light and the autostop does not engage because of low vacuum pressure or the battery back pack is below 3 bars (remember, in autostop the battery backpack is used to power the car, and if it is too low then autostop does not want to engage because it will draw this battery down further). But if I really want to force my autostop in this situation anyway (and I often do because I hate the idling at a light), I push in the clutch, put the car in gear, step on the brake and let the clutch out slowly until the ICE dies. This forces the autostop. The car will then restart using the IMA (which is still on) when you take the car out of gear and then put it back into gear. The engine starts without using the keyed ignition switch (and the radio does not die out momentarily). This is forced, but it is more like an autostop than the reboot is.

So my complaint with the HCH is that you can't kill the ICE without also disconnecting the IMA/battery back pack from the rest of the car's electrical system. I plan to remedy that deficiency.

 

so you're stalling the engine??? and it acts the same way as an auto-stop?

 

Yes, but it doesn't act exactly the same as autostop, but very similar.

 

Actually you can't use this. On my last trip to the dealership, I paid a visit to the parts department and asked about a rear seat cup holder. They opened the accessories book to Civics and showed me the same thing as your link. Those cup holders are for the other Civics except for the hybrids. If you look at the back of the center console, you'll notice that it’s composed of one piece of plastic. I don't think cutting the console up would be an option. The other Civics would have a removable piece (either for a cup holder or for a ashtray). Also, this cup holder would get in the way of a passenger sitting in the middle rear seat.



I wonder if the center consoles are interchangeable??? Would be a costly just for a cup holder..don't you think? I think aftermarket would be the way to go.

Either way, I'll leave well enough alone.

 

RJ
thank you for your clear description of what's happening electrically/ connectively with the difference between autostop & forced autostop/re-boot.
I too will force an autostop when in traffic, or otherwise stopped, if autostop doesn't kick in. my concern is the hypermiling technic of turning the engine off while moving. yes, obviously you get much better mileage without the ICE running- but there is that lurch when the engine is re-started while the car is in motion. what is that?? If you're coasting in neutral with the ICE on (lower rpm/better mpg/ better coasting w/o engine resistance) and you put the car back in D (I have a cvt) there are no issues or stresses on the car. (I'm not doing this at highway speeds-locally 30-40mph) But if you re-boot, the car physically lurches, (aside from the radio/ electric blip between the system restarting the engine) and HG says it "screams" if you reboot above 40mpg. I find it difficult to believe that what-ever that physical stress that causes that lurch is- that it's going to be ok for the car in the long run for people that regularly & repeatedly reboot for hypermileage.
so-
will your reboot switch function the same way the autostop feature does and keep IMA engaged? That would be cool. but I suspect, void my warrantee. still, I look forward to hearing how it works out!

as for the origin of this thread-
I'm personally glad there are no cupholders in the back- my kids slime everything, including my new car (and they're 11 &13) without offering them the opportunity for liquids in the backseat!
I really wanted a hybrid with ev only operation, and we intended to get the FEH. but due to availibility and pricing- we went with the HCH. In spite of the fact that it won't operate only on electric- I really love it since the mileage is WAY better than the FEH.
Kate

 

This is a small thing... But, where I live we have REALLY bad roads (Mass has the worst roads in the country). If I am braking lightly to moderately and go over a pot hole sometimes the ABS kicks in briefly (I can usually only feel 2-3 pulses in a second or less). This wouldn't be a problem except that when the ABS kicks in the regenerative braking ceases, causing a sudden loss of braking power that can be quite a shock at times. This obviously necessitates a quick increase in brake pressure to compensate, otherwise I would have a fender bender. It does seem that the ABS system in the HCH is very sensitive, and I wish that when the ABS system deactivated the regenerative braking would resume.

Other then that I like it a lot!

Oh, and rjbarlow... I would be VERY interested in hearing about the auto-stop button, I am an engineer and might even be able to help out.

~Droid

 

- The center console's arrangement leaves very little space for storing personal items. Slight rearrangement of the shifter and e-brake would allow for much more space, which would be nice.

- When coasting in gear, there is no way to cut regenerative braking without opening up the throttle slightly. It would be nice to have a bit more play in the pedal so that it would be possible to kill the regenn (and not lose so much momentum) while staying in fuel cut mode

- When braking, it seems to be impossible to use full regen braking without appyling the brakes slightly. It would be nice, again, if the pedal were set up in such a way that very light pedal pressure could enable 100% regen braking with no brake pressure.

- The ability to cut the engine (force an "auto-stop") would be nice for situations such as waiting in a long line of cars (like a drive-thru) or for freewheeling down gradual slopes. Rebooting the car is dangerous as once the vacuum pressure is used up, brake assist vanishes. It also takes a lot of time to get power back and get in gear since it requires a normal start (instead of an instant start along with shifting) Auto-stop mode would restart the engine to preserve this pressure for safety's sake.

 

KLCarch wrote"
I'm being misquoted here.

I always suggest a reboot going below 40MPH in the CVT for the tug in the drivetrain.
Below 30 it's not even noticable.

What I did post is when I was in my initial hypermiling training is that I made the mistake of exceeding 60MPH and attempted a restart. Yes, it screamed hard, loud and long and I wondered if I caused permanant damage.
A couple of weeks before that I was going about 65 and simply switched the key to OFF (Still in gear). Apparently all the clutches stayed fully engaged and the CVT shifted to its lowest ratio causing ICE to spin WAY faster than it's supposed to. Really winding up.

After those two episodes I decided to just settle for rolling in N if above 40.
Speaking of that,
After coasting in N at higher speeds you can also be as hard, if not harder on the drivetrain than coming out of reboot below 40.
That is, if you forget to do engine rev matching before switching back to D.
Ooops!

 

KLC, (I didn't want to quote you here because you are almost as verbose as I am, and I didn't want to take up the space. Are you a lawyer too?)

That lurch when you restart the enging while moving? Hmmm, I have an MT, not a CVT, but I would get a lurch if I tried to use too low a gear for the restart. In the MT I judge my speed and pick a higher gear (I'm guessing 4th above 20mph, or 5th for anything above 35mph) and I don't get a lurch. With the CVT you apparently don't have an option, and it sounds like when the engine is off the CVT defaults to some lower gear ratio, causing the lurch when you reengage it at speed. This would happen to me if I use 2nd or 3rd gear to restart if I am travelling very fast at all (I would never use 1st gear). In the MT, when I choose a gear, that is the gear I have until I shift. My guess is the CVT adjusts rapidly to the speed of the car, but right at the startup it is near its equivalent of 1st or 2nd gear, and lurches until it adjusts to the speed of the car and arrives at its equivalent of 4th or 5th, depending on your speed.

It sounds like when you coast with the ICE on, the CVT stays in a gear ratio near your actual speed so there is no lurch when you reengage it. The only way to hypermile with the engine on when coasting, is to coast at as high a speed as possible. The slower you coast with the ICE on, the lower your beneficial mpg from the coast.

I agree with you, that lurch repeatedly cannot be good for the tranny.

Frankly, I don't know how my "reboot" switch will end up working out. My main goal is to simply kill the engine without having to turn the ignition key. I speculate that the IMA should remain engaged then, and the battery back pack should stay connected to the 12 volt. But I don't anticipate the restart being any different than what we do now. It will be interesting to see if the ICE will come back on by simply putting the car in gear but before the clutch is let out (this is what it does when I force an autostop at a light).

Will the switch void the warranty? I imagine it would if they could find evidence that it had been installed. I suspect that if I had need for warranty service, I would remove it before taking the car to the dealer. I forget how long our warranty is, but I think mine expired at 30,000 miles.

As for electric only operation, the HCH will operate on electric only. You simply run out of gas and the IMA will continue to operate and move the car (at very very slow speeds). At that point, I suspect the IMA does not know the engine is off (since the engine was on and the key was never turned off), it simply applies assist as needed, and with the ICE off, a lot of assist is needed. But it eats up whatever battery back pack charge you have in a hurry. It is possible that with my kill switch in place, it will give me this EV mode on demand, but I wouldn't use it except maybe to crest a hill when my momentum was slightly insufficient to do it and I want to continue the glide to the back side of the hill without reengaging the ICE, and then only if my battery back pack charge is in a comfortable range.