When to do first oil change
 

My '06 HCH has 1,200 miles on it so I bought some mobile 1 0W20 full synthetic to have the Honda dealer put in this weekend. When I went up there the guy in service said it was "waaay" too soon to change the oil and that I should wait until 5,000 miles. He said the break in oil and special yada yada and that the engine needs several thousand miles to break in. He also said don't switch over to full synthetic until atleast 10,000 miles. Anyway, he was saying it would actually hurt my car in the long run if I took out the break in oil and changed to full synthetic at 1,200 miles today.

(He actually pulled out some Honda document saying don't do the first oil change sooner than advised...but it was from 1996!)

My thoughts were to change the break in oil out sooner than the 7,500 mile service interval to get rid of the dirty (from breaking in) break in oil and put in the mobile 1 full synthetic in. No need to keep the tiny engine break in metal particles in the oil for an entire 7,500 miles, and the new synthetic oil might give me an extra mpg or two.

I think it's fine to change out the break in oil at this milage, I've done it on previous vehicles with no problems. Heck, on my old Honda CBR motorcycle I changed out the oil at 500 miles and put in full synthetic, never gave me any problems, ran like a champ and you know it was run a lot harder than my hybrid. And going to full synthetic "too soon", more and more cars are coming with synthetic blends or even full synthetic from the factory now.

BUT.... before I did anything I wanted to get "ya'lls" opinion.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I'd follow the recommendations in the Honda owner's manual.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Why not do what the nice gentleman said? If he was just out to make money , which he is of course, his answer would have been different. There has been a fairly recent discussion in a previous thread about which oil and when. My dealer also says leave it in place until the first scheduled change.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

You're Honda motorcycle isn't a brand new car. The engine was BUILT with the specific break-in oil in mind. The manufacturer's themselves put the special blend of oil in to help break in the rings right and seat the valves correctly. I would NOT change the oil until AT LEAST 5,000 miles. This will allow that special oil to do its thing to your internal combustion parts. Don't worry about it, it will be time to change your oil soon enough. Why spend more money when you don't have to ???? They also told me that it would be BAD for the engines internal's to change it before the 5,000 mile mark. I passed mine about a week ago, and I'm not going to change my oil until I have to, until the Oil Life Meter is at 10% or less. It won't hurt the car, and then the warranty dept. can't come back and claim down the road that the engine had car trouble as a result of me changing the oil too soon. Think about it, is it really worth it ????

Re: When to do first oil change
 

The oil from the factory DOES in fact have molybdenum in it, which acts as an extra lubricant and is useful to mitigate any initial wear pattern problems. There are several old threads here from people who had their initial oil analyzed and did show higer levels of moly.

Super top-secret special break-in oil? No. But it is not stock oil, either.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Tulip - The guy in the service department is not going to make more money whether I got my oil changed or not, you think he's on commish or owns the dealership or something? The Honda CBR I bought it brand new.

Mexiken - why spend more money when you don't have to? And you bought a hybrid? ;)

I would think a full synthetic Mobile 1 oil with it's "energy conserving" additives and "Supersyn anti-wear technology" would have enough lubrication. :)

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I'm curious, is there data to show that there are more metallic particles created during the first few miles than there normally are? I can see where the manufacturing process might leave some residues in the engine, but if it were a problem wouldn't Toyota and Honda, with their emphasis on reliability, have done something about it by now - maybe fit the car with a magnetic drain plug or flush the engine prior after assembly or something? And if it's not residue, then it must be shavings from the manufacturing process? Again, would they really let that happen if it were a problem?

I'm not saying it's wrong, just curous about it.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

My last 2 Hondas both had stickers from the dealer saying to change the oil at 5,000 miles. Found this on a Honda dealer website:

On all Hondas (except Passport), the original engine oil contains additives to protect the engine during its break-in period. Since these additives aren’t in over-the-counter oils, make sure the first oil change happens at the recommended mileage/time interval, and not before.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Its a new car under warrenty... let it go for the 5k miles and if something happens, its thier fault. Why change the oil now and create a possible problem for yourself?

Re: When to do first oil change
 

enp:

Um yeah, I bought a hybrid. I live in California, so now I get a carpool lane sticker. That alone is almost worth the price increase from an EX. I get a tax CREDIT at the end of the year which will COMPLETELY abolish my tax liability (I don't make that much in hourly wages to have to pay much tax), so I can look forward to getting ALL my taxes back next year. I get about 50-55 miles per gallon. The truck I had before got about 18-20. Had I driven the same amount of miles, I would have saved about 120 dollars in gas a MONTH (with gas around 2.00 or so). Not to mention, I drive WAY more now because I actually have a reliable car. I've had my HCH II for about 2 months, and it already has more than 5,000 miles on it. The truck alone cost me about 1500-2500 in maintenance repairs in 2005. Probably about another 1000 the year before that....I won't even spend EITHER of those quantities in gas a YEAR with the HCH, even driving it 30,000 miles a year. So I fail to see where I lost out on the deal....not everything is as simple as it seems....

If you want to go and change your oil, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. I'm done trying to be nice about it and convince you that its a BAD IDEA....EVERYONE ELSE on here is also telling you its wise to just let it go the 5,000 miles, but to no avail. So do whatever you want. When you have problems down the road with the engine, and they find out that you didn't let it go the 5,000 miles before changing the oil, and they don't want to cover it because you didn't follow the proper maintenance schedule, you have NO ONE to blame but yourself. All dealers tell they're new car owners about it, they make a point of it. You aren't an exception, and they won't treat you as such. I was told by 2 different guys at the same dealership when I bought my car for crying out loud. But I digress. You've been warned....

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Now you sound like you're here to argue, not to listen to others' advice. So go ahead. Do what Honda tells you not to do. And throw away some good money while you're at it.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Nodoby's here to argue- let's keep it below a rolling boil here- this topic is just engine oil. We're talking about very slight shades of gray between folks here.

Oil change intervals are largely a matter of personal preference; so is the specific type used. No need to start yelling at one another about bad ideas or not taking advice.

FWIW, yes, any modern oil (with the ASE sunburst symbol, etc) of the porper grade certainly provides enough lubrication. Fear not. Honda and other makers choose to add something extra to provide some more margin while the initial gear teeth wear patterns are developed and cylinders/pistons set in. Emphasis on the extra part. Moly is used in many application as a lubricant in addition to or instead of oil. Nothing unusual or particularly special about it. As a matter of fact I used it this morning at my son's pinewood derby (4th of 40 cars).

Also, for Toast- the concern isn't about 'metallic shavings' which are largely urban legend for modern cars, but about ensuring the gears wear in properly (not creating matel shvings, simply setting in against one another and preferred wear surfaces mating up).
As for particulate matter left in the engine after building, there is often some silicon left over from the casting process; many times an oil analysis report will come back with elevated Si levels from the 1st one or two changes; this is expected, and moly also helps lubricate against Si abrasion- atoms vs atoms instead of atoms vs large hydrocarbon chains.

Engine killer to change it early? No. Preferred to keep it in by the OEM? Yes. Are you free to do what you choose, armed with this and other information? By all means.

Now please keep it calmed down, folks.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I guess ElanC and MexikEn didn't see the smiley faces or pick up on the kind nature of my posts, but if they want to write out long winded paragraphs in response and tell me what I meant by my posts, "KNOCK YOURSELVES OUT!"

Re: When to do first oil change
 

6k here, oil is 40% now... looks like it's going to be somewhere around 9-10k

Re: When to do first oil change
 

masgian:

Ditto. I've got 6300, and I'm actually at 30%. It looks like it will land between 9 and 10 K. Great !!!!

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I plan to change mine when the Oil Life meter tells me to. I will follow the manual and save the money.

Up until 5 or so years ago, I always changed my Oil @ 3000 miles or so. Recently I have been doing it around 6000 miles. I firmly believe the days of having to change oil every 3000 miles are over.

If this was my dealer who told me to wait, I would respect them for it since they are usually looking to make money all the time.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I just got mine changed at the dealer in Escondido, CA. My car is at about 8800 miles and the oil life was 10% with an indicator "A1" (change oil, rotate tires?.. is that what "A1" means?). They said I was the first HCH-06 to come in for service at this dealership.

Anyway, I was also smelling something during accelerations, so I asked them to check the air filter. They said I needed one and were about to give the car back to me, so I asked to see the old filter. Turned out that they hadn't replaced it because they didn't have any in the shop and had to order it. I wonder if they would have told me that if I hadn't asked to see the old filter?? So, I am going back tomorrow to get the new filter. I might check the old one before I go in (first to see if it's really dirty, and maybe make a mark on the bottom of it or something, just to make sure they switch it). Now I'm also wondering if they really rotated the tires, and if they really added the right kind of oil. Maybe they didn't have the 0W-whatever oil in stock and just added the regular 10W-30. Sheesh, I hate auto servicing...

Also, when I went in, the service guy told me I should have had the oil changed at 5000 miles. He didn't seem to know about the oil life meter, or was recommending that I ignore it... I couldn't quite tell.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

these days, oil changes at 3k is pure marketing. a good idea, for highway/urban use with good quality oil is around now is no less than 8k. I was testing my oil in a normal Civic to see when I have to change. So I probed it and the oil had to be changed eventually after 12k. I did the change at 12k but the lab said that it was still ok... god knows where that could go. Meanwhile, my mother in law changed oil three times at least on a same model...

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I'm definately not wanting to change my oil every 3k, I just want to get the break in oil out of there (and whatever it may be carrying) and put in some good mobile one. I realize the break in oil isn't "breaking down" or anything, but I've always changed the initial break in oil out pretty soon (the initial break in doesn't take that long), plus I'm hoping for a slight mpg improvement from the mobile 1 full synthetic.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I waited til the oil percentage got down to 10% (8,800 miles) before taking it to the dealership to change the oil. To be honest my hch II runs better now then it did in the beginning. Before the oil change I was getting 52 mpg now with this last tank I avg. 58.4 mpg. For what its worth, I would use the oil that is recommended in the manual.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

It is, Mobile 1 makes a 0W20 weight full synthetic.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I just got my oil changed this week. I don't know when it was changed before I owned it, but this was the first time we've had it changed, and I've put ~9k miles on it. I've got a little window kling on my windshield that suggests changing the oil again in 3k miles. I wouldn't think I'd really have to change it again so soon. Does anyone know if the Honda dealership uses synthetic oil?

Re: When to do first oil change
 

all commercially avaiable 0W20 is synthetic. If you specify for them to use 0W20 (which is what the manual syas for the HCH?) it will be synthetic. That's why their lube specials always exclude hybrids.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Thanks. I had a feeling that might be the case. I had to pay extra for an "Insight" oil change, 0W-20.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Good info. Are you sure it's a full synthetic and not "just" a synthetic blend? My old '03 Ranger 4cyl called for a 5W20 "synthetic blend".

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I don't think there's any magic to the oil life indicator. It's set to go down 10% every 1,000 miles until you reach 10,000 miles just as the manual recommends.

;););):angel::D:D:D

Re: When to do first oil change
 

dshelman,

I disagree with your analysis of the oil life indicator (assuming you weren't trying just to be funny - hard to read sarcasm on a website sometimes) I have a much heavier city / short trip mix than many of the members here and my oil life indicator tends to go down 10% about every 650 miles give or take. And my 2006 Civic Hybrid owner's manual doesn't say anything about 10K service interval - it says to use the maintenance minder.

Eric

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I believe that you are right. I believe that the computer takes in account RPM, engine load and maybe other factors to determine the oil life.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I think it takes in engine temperature as a big part of the equation, how long the engine is run before it's fully up to normal operating temps. Lots of short trips in the city will bring the oil life meter down quicker than lots of long highway driving where the engine is rarely cold.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Since the OLM has come into question, I thought I'd post my observations on the OLM built into the '06 Hondas...my car has been exposed to rather cold temps (up to -10F) since I've taken delivery, and I drive it lightly, for mileage, but I also drive a lot of miles (about 3900 in 9 weeks of ownership).


I happened to just catch the first two 10% decreases. The first was at 750mi almost exactly. At that point, I wondered... "will it decrease 10% every 750mi, to show 0% at 7500mi ?" (7500mi is the mileage at which the old system would flash and stay lit as a reminder to change the oil - but it wasn't an 'intelligent' system, the way this one is supposed to be.

As the car approached 1500mi, I kept my eye on the OLM. Right about 1550mi, it dropped from 90% to 80%. I started wondering how 'intelligent' the OLM really was, and figured I'd see the next change at about 2100-2400mi.

70% came along at....2508mi So far, the reductions were looking pretty darned linear to me - every 800mi on average. Temps had been increasing a little bit, but no higher than about 40-45F on average.

A few days ago, the OLM dropped to 60% - at about 3350mi., or about 850mi since the last decrease.

So, to recap:
100 > 90% = 750mi
90 > 80% = 1550mi (800mi elapsed)
80 > 70% = 2508mi (958mi " )
70 > 60% = 3350mi (842mi " )

From what I remember, the following criteria are evaluated to calculate the oil life:
Avg Trip length (shorter depletes oil life % remaining faster)
Avg RPM (higher depletes % faster)
Avg Temperature (lower depletes faster)

Now...given that the 1st 10% came during some of the coldest part of our winter up here... at about 1700mi, initial break-in occurred...an additional break-in at about 2200-2300mi, initial tire tread wore off and decreased rolling resistance somewhere along the line...and it's gotten warmer out in the last few days...

What approximate mileage will the OLM in my car decrease to 50% ? (I'm going with 4000mi, myself)

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Pretty good observations. My car just hit 50% at around 4250 miles.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

My dealer told me 3,500 miles for the first oil change, 3,000 miles every time after.

The manual has NO actual time frame (I could not find a maintenance schedule!!)

HELP!!

Seems awfully generic, especially considering the 0W 20 oil and considering the built-in maintenance reminders...

Re: When to do first oil change
 

The odometer display tells you when the oil change is due. Press the button several times until you see a number - for a new car it will be 100. Every 800 miles or so it will drop by 10, to 90, 80, etc. When it gets down to 10, take the car in for an oil change. (This is all in the owner's manual).

Re: When to do first oil change
 

That's what I thought. I think they are trying to rip off those who do not read the manual.

Plus it's old information. I thought it made no sense.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

FWIW, my salesman told me that there is an optical sensor in the system. He said that a beam of light is sent through the oil to a receptor. The sensor analyzes the clarity/number of particulates in the oil to determine the acceptable oil life. I thought it was pretty cool and it sure sounded better than a straight linear/mile/rpm calculation. Salesmanship at it's best...or at it's worst?????

Re: When to do first oil change
 

The same engine in all the European Union countries goes 12500 miles or 1 year whichever comes first!! That is in the Honda service schedule, it's not left to the dealer to "fantasise"?

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I am going to wait until the computer tells me which should be roughly at 10,000 miles. This is what Honda says to do and that is good enough for me. Fewer oil changes are good for the environment also. :)

Re: When to do first oil change
 

Oh, my God :eek:-- that is such utter bull! I bet after work that salesman was having a beer with his co-workers and laughing his a$$ off.

Can anybody top that car saleman lie???

Re: When to do first oil change
 

well.... it's not entirely out of the question. back in 2003 hitachi was working on a system described exactly like this:

" Meanwhile, Hitachi is working on an optical-based method that the company
claimed could be adapted to all types of vehicles without the need to make
any engine modifications. According to the company, the degree of oil
deterioration is measured by assessing the transmission losses of
near-infrared light."

sensors like this aren't that expensive nowadays. my dishwasher has an optical sensor that monitors the water for particulates of food to adjust the wash cycle automatically.

Re: When to do first oil change
 

I can't top the lie, but the manual does say there is a computer that reads total revolutions, mileage, duration of trips, engine time on and off and so on and calculates engine oil life.

I did see that on the dash and do understand it from other cars as well.

In spite of what the manual says, Honda's website and customer relations, the dealer insists that 3500 miles for the first and 3000 for each additional is the way to go.

https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Mainte...s.asp#oilfirst

https://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Mainte...#ofenoilchange

(you'll need to log in to see both)
I guess my dealer knows better than Honda? ;)