Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

New York City is right on the money in their quest to ban trans fats from restaurants.

For years I had terrible cholesterol numbers. Finally my doctor got after me about it, I paid attention, and I started an aggressive campaign to manage my cholesterol.

First stop, of course, was Google. Within an hour I had solid leads to pursue. My first and obvious question was what was it about my diet that would cause such terrible cholesterol numbers. The Google search gave me an answer very quickly.

I had been the "cookie monster," eating cookies morning, noon, and night. I also ate peanut butter sandwiches for lunch almost every day. Guess what? All of that was saturated with partially hydrogenated oils (trans fats).

Read the labels. All the cookies I was eating had partially hydrogenated oils, as well as the peanut butter.

The Google search revealed numerous credible web sites which all agreed that partially hydrogenated oils (trans fats) raise LDL, bad cholesterol, and lower HDL, good cholesterol.

This is critical, because your risk factor is a ratio of total cholesterol to good cholesterol. Raising bad cholesterol while lowering good cholesterol is the worst thing possible, and is what trans fats do, without question.

My risk factor for heart attack/stroke was "highest category."

I banned trans fats from my diet, starting taking the lowest dosage of Lipitor (10 mg) and my cholesterol numbers are now perfect and my risk factor has gone from "highest" to "lowest."

If you want to get your cholesterol under control, ban trans fats from your diet. No more donuts, french fries, blueberry muffins, nothing commercially baked, no fried foods, nothing that you cannot verify is free of partially hydrogenated oils.

I have switched to cookies that do not contain partially hydrogenated oils, and peanut butter that does not contain any. It isn't that hard to do...

take care,

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Good for you.

I'm in the middle somewhere, but haven't done much to reduce my trans-fat, I'm quasi-atkins and really don't eat much trans-fat, but do consume lots of animal fat. My doctor and I are on the fence on whether to ad lipitor to the mix, but haven't yet.

As to the ban, I'm against it. As our knowledge increases we've gone from animal based products, to the once thought to be better trans-fat. My guess, the new ban will return lots of restaurants to beef tallow. The vegetarians will have to be more attentive.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Many people react to proposed government bans on trans fats as an affront on their freedoms. It is not.

You have to understand what trans fats are. Perfectly healthy vegetable oils are subjected to heat and pressure, in an atmosphere of hydrogen, along with metal catalysts, to produce partially hydrogenated oils. These trans fats have no beneficial effects on the human body, and exist only to save food producers a few cents in added shelf life.

The negative health effects of trans fats are staggering. It literally should be a crime to put anything with trans fats in any food. Long-term cholesterol problems lead to hardening of the arteries, cardiac problems, stroke, memory loss and even worse effects in the form of cognitive decline. How about erectile dysfunction?

Your cholesterol numbers matter, and they are critical to your health. It's important that all of us realize this, including young people.

And no, banning trans fats should not increase the use of cholesterol-rich animal fats. There are numerous healthy vegetable oils available. A health-conscious and informed public will determine what's in our food, something that hasn't been happening until recently.

take care,

Harry

PS: avoid french fries like the plague, they are saturated in trans fats!

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

I have to agree, get rid of all trans fats from everything. It HAS to be as bad or worse than smoking, I say worse because young children have no idea their parents are feeding them artery clogging sludge.

Harry is right, its trans fats that extend shelf life and decrease human life.

Trans fats are man made, not naturally occurring.

I have my chloresterol in check, but struggling with triglycerides.

There should be a major law or penalty for serving folks all this garbage.

Tony

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Sounds like we are all on the same track. I had high trigyceride levels that weren't controlled by diet so I take medication now and all is well. But trans fats are poison at any level. They actually cause inflammation of your arteries because their molecular structure is jagged, which causes it to stick to the lining of your arteries. We should avoid it at all costs.

Banning it would be fine because then you would know for sure, but I would never trust a food label because I don't know how well its use would be controlled in a food mfg plant.

Also, beware that cooking with certain polyunsaturated oils will result in the production of trans fats associated with the high temps used during the frying process.

:shade:

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Hey Ralph,

are you by any chance taking a pill known as Tricor? I used to be on it, but for some reason, stopped taking it.

My diet is soooo free of fats my joints squeek.

I see the doc Monday for some sort of new blood test to help determine why and where the triglecerides are coming from.

Tony

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

I've been having blood tests for liver function and cholesterol since I started on Lipitor, which is why I am so certain that banning trans fats works.

In our last rap session, where typically my doctor compares the latest lab report with the last awful one (fifteen months ago) he also pointed out that my triglycerides also went from horrible to ideal.

Besides the strict ban on trans fats, I have added a glass of red wine with dinner most nights, a glass of OJ at breakfast, and more fruits and fruit juices.

My goal was in part to raise my HDL, which Lipitor will not do. I have doubled my HDL. That's why I started on red wine and OJ, to help raise the HDL. I have found out just yesterday that concord grape juice raises HDL, too.

http://www.staging.welchs.com/health...ealthnews.html

The key is replacing bad things in your diet with good things. I am also taking some Turmeric capsules, which raise HDL, and is good at warding off cognitive decline.

Salmon is great, too.

take care,

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Absolutely, I take it every day. Tryglycerides typically will come from eating sweets, so I cut out all sweets except for a little Reeses cup once and a while. ;) I also work out at the gym almost every day (aerobic excercise on bike) and walk on the off days mixed with some light weight training. Dropped about 15 lbs since July and now at almost ideal weight for my height (170/5'11"). Just have to get rid of the remaining "yolk sack" around the middle (not very much though). Plenty of protien mixed with flax seed oil for fat (Udo's blend) and plenty of fish (tuna or fresh steamed cod) does the trick.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Here's another take on the New York Ban.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235317,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,228537,00.html

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Those news articles kinda remind me of reporters discussing hybrid cars....

fortunately, I didn't have any heart problems, however I did have by pass surgery this March. I was minding my own business, feeling great and had my annual physical but this time I requested a treadmill stress test.

The test was effortless, yet the results showed I had one artery blocked at 50%. I allowed them to convince me that placing a stent was a good idea, so away we went to have that done.

Upon completion of the attempt to place a stent, the Dr told me he could not place one because the one artery was in fact blocked 70% and I had two others blocked at 100% ! Go figure !

The reason I never experienced any problems is because I had grown collateral arteries around the blockages.

I went ahead and had by-pass surgery done and all is fine. I hate to say this or admit this but the surgery was not that bad. I had it done on a Wed and was walking around back home in the neighborhood on Saturday.

I only mentioned the above as to the reason why I do avoid the suspect 'bad fats' like the plaque now and am very pro-active in getting my blood chemistry in the best order it can be.

I can comfortably say, folks just don't know how much fat, good or bad is in every bite of food they eat, yet many of us know how much octane and %of additives are in the fuel our car uses. Some of us go way out of our way to be sure and use syn 0-20w oil and will drive miles to get it, yet we woof down things that are sub par daily.

Sorry for the run away message here..... I for one, feel it is important to limit the bad things available for us all to eat.

Tony

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Foxnews is full of it.

I have the data to prove they are wrong, in the form of a series of lab tests showing my cholesterol and triglycerides numbers. Data is believable, and factual. It is not hunches or conjecture, or opinion.

My cholesterol numbers have gone from horrible to perfect, and the key was banning trans fats from my diet.

What does foxnews base their conclusions on?

I agree with them on one thing, this could be the start of many lawsuits. I draw a strong parallel between the situation with trans fats in American food today and the situation with smoking in the 60's. The more reading I do, the more certain I am of how terrible it is that Americans are consuming trans fats daily, without a clue of how damaging it is to their health.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Here's the Harvard paper that foxnews is knocking:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/reviews/transfats.html

Read up on it and decide who you would choose to believe.

I got it from here:

http://www.bantransfats.com/

Lots of good reading at that site.

take care and good health to all,

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

From reading your Harvard study I'll attempt to summarize the results.

They list several epidemiological studies and include risk analysis as follows. ( I inverted some risks for instance one study shows a r=.88 for lower trans fat consumption which is equivalent to a r=1.14 risk for high trans fat consumption. This allows apples to apples between studies.

Keys study
Risk of Mortality from saturated fat = 1.14
Risk of Mortality from Transfat = 1.28

Scottish Heart study
Risk of undiagnosed CHD women = 1.26
Risk of undiagnosed CHD Men = 1.08
These were reported as not statistically significant, which means it could be simple chance.

Boston Study
Risk of heart attack = 2.4

Euromic Study
Risk of Heart attack (MI) = .97
This concluded higher trans fat reduced heart attacks slightly.:confused:
But if they throw out the people in spain the numbers change to this.

Risk from 3rd quadrent of trans fat intake = 1.53
Risk from highest quardrent of trans fat intake = 1.44

The highest intake was slightly lower risk than somewhat less intake.

If the data was separated by country it goes like this
Spain Risk = .2
Moscow = .2
Finland = 5.0
Norway = 5.4
As the study said, "interpret is controversial"

3 studies relating 2% increase in trans fat to CHD.
HPFS = 1.36
ATBC = 1.14
NHS = 1.93
Pooled all 3 = 1.31

The problem is the studies are relatively all over the board and a risk factor of 1.31 is considered low. The studies may try to factor out other risks like obesity, smoking, diabetes, blood pressure, but those factors are also not well understood.

If every behavior that carried a risk factor of 1.31 was banned, we'd have to ban a lot. I'd rather not see it go that direction, but it seems that's the case. Eventually the crusaders that want trans fat banned will find something to ban that you'll disagree with.;)

By contrast the risk factor for smoking is a 12.

Trans fat is not the healthiest choice but it's not like smoking.

The lives that are claimed to be saved are just theoretical. Historically blood pressure is down, cholesterol is down, smoking is down yet CHD incidence have remain the same, when all the proponents of bans claim lives saved. The reason less people died from CHD is because of better treatment, but the same number of people have the problem.

Peace

Steve

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

It's not a matter of right or wrong. The studies are simply statistics, and are open to interpretation and possibly government action.

One article concluded that the same people that authored the Harvard Study, Alberto Ascherio and Walter Willett have done studies that would suggesting that the following foods are as bad or worse than trans fats.

potatoes
peas
peanuts
beans
lentils
orange juice
grapefruit juice
sunflower oil
red meat
dairy products
soft drinks
diet soft drinks


That data that you have showing your reduction in cholesteral and triglycerides is great, but it is inconclusive as to whether you will live longer because of it. People with "perfect" numbers die of heart attacks every day, those with higher numbers die slightly more often.

I'm not trying to be as morbid as that last sentence may sound, but we all die somehow.

To quote Jimi Hendrix - "I'm the one that gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to". OK bad example.:omg:

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

It's not about one study.

There is a preponderence of evidence, in the form of many, many studies which all conclude that cholesterol numbers are well understood now, and that the accepted way of determining risk factors, of total cholesterol/HDL cholesterol is valid.

Sure, individuals vary and have other risk factors besides their cholesterol numbers.

Dismiss cholesterol risk factors at your own peril.

What I strenuously object to is our government, who knows better, ignoring cholesterol risk factors, and allowing trans fats in our foods. At the very least they should expend more effort to inform people of the very real dangers.

The cholesterol ratio gives your risk factor for heart attack/stroke from cholesterol. There are other sources of risk. This does not in any way diminish the importance of cholesterol as a risk factor.

And besides heart attack/stroke, the risk ratio for that is strongly correlated to risk of Alzheimers and dementia.

Wake up, people!

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

But the Harvard study is essentially all of the best studies available, and it concluded that the risk factor is .97 or 1.08, or 1.28, or 1.31, or 1.93, or 2.4, with the strongest number at 1.31. In epidemiology a risk factor of less than 2 is considered weak. Here's a quote from the National Cancer Institute.

"In epidemiologic research, relative risks of less than 2 are considered small and usually difficult to interpret. Such increases may be due to chance, statistical bias or effects of confounding factors that are sometimes not evident".

Here is a complete summary of the Nurses Health Study involving 90,000 nurses mentioned in the Harvard study, and authored by the same Walter Willet.

It was broke into 5 quintiles from low to high consumption of various fats.

Each quintile lists a relative risk and 95% confidence interval (CI) for example a 1.07 (CI 0.77-1.48) would be considered statistically insignificant because the lower CI value (0.77)is less than 1.0. A 1.38(1.13-1.68) would be statically significant as the lower CI value (1.13) is greater than 1.0

Conclusion
As Willet reported it there is a statistically significant risk of 1.53 (1.16-2.02) for patients that had trans fat consumption of 2.9% of energy consumption.

He didn't report that at 2% or lower there was no statistical association between trans fat and CHD.

He also didn't report that there was no statistically significant association between CHD and TOTAL FAT at 46% of dietary energy.

He didn't report that there was no statistically significant association between CHD and ANIMAL FAT at 36.4% of dietary energy.

He didn't report that there was no statistically significant association between CHD and Cholesterol at 273.

I thought we knew for sure that lots of fat in our diet, and high cholesterol were bad for us, this large study, the same one that says trans fat is bad, seems to say otherwise.

http://www.junkscience.com/images/transtab.gif

The reported number does seem to change as it is updated periodically, here is a 2005 report that puts trans fat at 1.33(1.07-1.66)? from the same Nurses Health Study.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ract/161/7/672

When Willet then claims that 30,000 lives per year could be saved nationally or 500 people a year won't die because of the ban in New York, he is relying totally on the risk factor and the difference between 1.08 or 1.33 or 1.53 has a huge impact on the theoretical lives saved.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

What I've been told by my doctor is the first step to control cholesterol is what you eat. If your overweight or are a junk food junky (or both) you have a good chance of having bad cholesterol numbers. If changing your diet doesn't help than medication is the next step. For me I went on the meds right from the start because my triglycerides were bad. Now the numbers are where they should be.

Food intake is an important part HDL/LDL control. Trans fats should be eleminated, fats, sugars and carbs should be limited.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/98/104656.htm

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

That's what I was saying...

I'm not sure about the rest of your response, or your motivation in posting it?

What is your point, anyway?

Here's another data point from my own experience, to illustrate that cholesterol does far more than add to your coronary risk.

I took a Civil Service promotional exam two years ago, and did miserably on it. At the time I was having serious short-term memory problems, and just wasn't doing well in general.

A year after that exam I got on Lipitor and put a complete and fanatical ban on trans fats in my diet, raised my HDL every way I could (I doubled it), and in general worked at getting my cholesterol numbers in shape. I achieved excellent cholesterol numbers immediately.

I took that same Civil Service exam again, after having excellent cholesterol numbers for a solid year. My score almost doubled, from embarrassingly low to very good (an 85).

I had noticed markedly better short-term memory about 6 months into my "ban all trans-fats program."

You can cite all the studies you want, I have all the information I need from cholesterol and other testing, and I'm here to share the wisdom with all who might be inclined to take advantage of it.

Ban all trans fats from your diet, get your cholesterol tested, and manage it aggressively! It's not just about your heart, it's about your quality of life.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Here's another very important article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14348517/

Notice the direct link between partially hydrogenated oils (trans fats) and cognitive decline.

And notice that most multi-vitamins give you an overdose of copper.

I have eliminated trans fats and copper, and am enjoying a remarkable improvement in my mental functioning.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Another study linking high cholesterol, copper, and cognitive decline:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4045

"We believe that this is a two-step process," Sparks told New Scientist. "Cholesterol causes overproduction of Alzheimer's proteins and then copper inhibits the clearance of beta-amyloid [a plaque-inducing protein] from the brain to the blood."



This is serious, don't ignore it.

I have banned trans fats, gotten my cholesterol numbers perfect, and banned copper.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

My point is Willett's reporting on this Nurses's study is just one example of how unclear it is on the significants or risk of many things in our diet.

He has reported that trans fat has a risk factor of 1.93, 1.53 and 1.33 at different times based on the same set of data. Yet it is generally understood that risk factors below 2 are not considered anything but weak associations. 2.9% trans fat is considered high transfat consumption, but at 2% or below trans fat was of no risk, yet we are then told there is no safe level, contridicting that 2% has no risk?

Yet at the same time the Nurse's study finds no risk for extremely high total fat, high animal fat, or the resulting high Cholesteral. Willett sells the Nurse' Health Study as the best available data. He could be reporting instead "All we thought we knew about high fat diets and high cholesterol are unclear, we found no risk", which would be a fair reading of the data.

You're happy with a law banning trans fats which haven't been shown to be anything more than a concern at high consumption, when there are dozens of other commonly consumed items that should also be banned if there is a consistent application of health concerns. I'd rather not see that direction in government help.

You've taken the steps you have without a law, why can't you leave it at that?

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Why are you restricting your arguments to this Willett fellow, and why on Earth would you defend the use of partially hydrogenated oils in our food supply? What benefit is it to you or anyone else?

I have supplied other reference material more powerful than anything Willett has done, and you choose to ignore it.

I have supplied very personal test results which to me certainly trump any studies out there. I've proven beyond any doubt that banning trans fats from my own diet has resulted in going from horrible cholesterol numbers to perfect cholesterol numbers. What is it about those results that you can't acknowledge or understand?

My best way to deal with you is to urge you to keep consuming trans fats. Have at it.

Have you had your cholesterol tested? Do you care what it is?

(Others around here might be more open-minded, and more concerned with their health than you are.)

This is not some issue of big government versus individual rights. To the contrary, it is a prime example of lobbyists having sway over government policies, policies that are damaging our health.

I really can't fathom why you would argue against health, in favor of allowing lobbyists to put unhealthy substances in our food.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

You are apparently not aware that Willett is behind the Nurse's Health Study, and the Harvard report you posted, and just about all the studies used to further the ban in New York. Everything you quoted on transfat has Willett's name on it. Bantransfat.com uses Willett's studies as it's main evidence, there is no stronger evidence than Willett's and it is statistically weak at best.

I'm not defending it's use, just questioning a trivial but legal ban on a substance that may be harmful in high consumption, that appears to have been demonized. You don't like Fox News, here's a New York Times article that agrees with my assessment, that trans fat is a easy whipping boy for feel good legislation that accomplishes nothing. It would apear that we must ban all animal fat to really accomplish any health benefits

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/we...rssnyt&emc=rss



You personal tests prove nothing, and trump nothing. What you call perfect cholesterol numbers means nothing if it isn't know what perfect numbers are, and that perople with perfect numbers only die from heart disease with a slightly less frequent rate than those with terrible numbers, which are the facts. People with good cholesteral levels do die every day of heart attacks and heart disease.

This is an issue of big government deciding it has the ability to eliminate things that it feels are dangerous to save the dim-witted masses that can't think for themselves from themselves and the evil corporations that prey on their stupidity.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

That's nonsense. You home in on one report, and base your whole argument on that. There are numerous reports out there, many from Europe.

I see you ignored the scientific evidence I provided that high levels of cholesterol lead to cognitive decline. The risks from heart attack and stroke are significant, but there are other dangers, very serious ones.
"Dim-witted masses"? Well, more of us are more informed by the day. If you want dim-witted, keep ingesting trans fats so you can then suffer cognitive decline.

This is a case of the government allowing an alien substance into our food supply, back in 1910, and then not acknowledging more recent information that it is indeed harmful.

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/tranfat.htm


"Some adverse effects of consuming trans fatty acids reported in humans and animals are:
Lowers the "good" HDL cholesterol in a dose response manner (the higher the trans level in the diet, the lower the HDL cholesterol in the serum);
Raises the LDL cholesterol in a dose response manner;
Raises the atherogenic lipoprotein (a) in humans;
Raises total serum cholesterol levels 20-30mg%;
Lowers the amount of cream (volume) in milk from lactating females in all species studied, including humans, thus lowering the overall quality available to the infant;
Correlates to low birth weight in human infants;
Increases blood insulin levels in humans in response to glucose load, increasing risk for diabetes;"
The list goes on, even longer than quoted...

"After closely scrutinizing data from scientific studies and reviews, many European countries have either banned hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils altogether or have instituted future dates for elimination of their use in foods. These government actions concerning the trans fatty acids (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils) is directly related to studies that link trans fatty acid (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oil) consumption from processed foods to the development of diabetes, cancer and cardiovascular disease."

http://www.recoverymedicine.com/hydrogenated_oils.htm

This site mentions Willet, but also cites other studies. It also goes on to say:

"Because trans fatty acids (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils) increase LDL cholesterol to levels similar to those produced by saturated fatty acids and also decrease HDL cholesterol levels, the net effect of trans fatty acids (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils) on the ratio of LDL cholesterol to HDL cholesterol is approximately double that of saturated fatty acids."

Which is why, when I banned trans fats from my diet, my HDL doubled. By eliminating trans fats, I got rid of the culprit that lowered my HDL to 22.

If you want to argue against the importance of LDL and HDL on heart attack/stroke risk and cognitive decline, you may as well howl at the moon, because every responsible medical person out there will disagree with you.

"Several case-control or cross-sectional studies have also been conducted. In a case-control study of subjects in the Boston area, we found a strong and significant positive association between the intake of trans fatty acids (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils), assessed with the use of dietary questionnaires, and the risk of acute myocardial infarction."

"...prospective studies provide consistent evidence that the consumption of trans fatty acids increases the risk of coronary heart disease. The observed relative risks of coronary heart disease were larger than one might predict from the effects of trans fatty acids on LDL and HDL cholesterol levels alone. The increases in triglyceride and Lp(a) lipoprotein levels account for only a small increase in risk; therefore, other mechanisms may be involved."

"Conclusions
Metabolic and epidemiologic studies indicate an adverse effect of trans fatty acids on the risk of coronary heart disease. Furthermore, on a per-gram basis, the adverse effect of trans fatty acids appears to be stronger than that of saturated fatty acids."

"Editorial Comments:
Has the world become a very tight web of deceit when it comes to what does and what does not constitute good nutrition? The question of the negative health effects associated with hydrogenated oils has been answered several times, yet the regulatory bodies of many countries and big food corporations continue to attempt to discredit the information presented by leading scientists from all over the world. What is wrong with this picture? When things do not make sense, we must question the motives of those groups that are not making sense in their arguments (corporations that produce food and the regulatory bodies that are lobbied by these same big corporations). We must have accountability. When man-made chemicals pose risk they must be eliminated expediently from our food supply. Do you feel safe knowing that government seems to protect industry at the expense of citizens?"

That's what I was trying to say...

good health to all,

Harry

PS: do your own research. I've spent much time Googling the information, and it is backed up by my own cholesterol results, and my improved short term memory. To me, that is the most convincing evidence of all. I am much healthier having banned trans fats the last 18 months.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

More info:


Trans fats are bad for your heart. Dietary trans fats raise the level of low-density lipoproteins (LDL or "bad cholesterol") increasing the risk of coronary heart disease. Trans fats also reduce high-density lipoproteins (HDL or "good cholesterol"), and raise levels of triglycerides in the blood. Both of these conditions are associated with insulin resistance which is linked to diabetes, hypertension, and cardiovascular disease. Researchers have reported that people who ate partially hydrogenated oils, which are high in Trans fats, worsened their blood lipid profiles and had nearly twice the risk of heart attacks compared with those who did not consume hydrogenated oils.[1,2,3,4] Because of the overwhelming scientific evidence linking Trans fats to cardiovascular diseases, the Food and Drug Administration will require all food labels to disclose the amount of Trans fat per serving, starting in 2006.

Trans fats are bad for your brain. Trans fats also have a detrimental effect on the brain and nervous system. Neural tissue consists mainly of lipids and fats. Myelin, the protective sheath that covers communicating neurons, is composed of 30% protein and 70% fat. Oleic acid and DHA are two of the principal fatty acids in myelin. Studies show that trans fatty acids in the diet get incorporated into brain cell membranes, including the myelin sheath that insulates neurons.[10] These synthetic fats replace the natural DHA in the membrane, which affects the electrical activity of the neuron. Trans fatty acid molecules alter the ability of neurons to communicate and may cause neural degeneration and diminished mental performance. Neurodegenerative disorders such as multiple sclerosis (MS), Parkinson's Disease, and Alzheimer's Disease appear to exhibit membrane loss of fatty acids.[12,19] Unfortunately, our ingestion of trans fatty acids starts in infancy. A Canadian study showed that an average of 7.2% of the total fatty acids of human breast milk consisted of trans fatty acids which originated from the consumption of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils by the mothers.[11]

from: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fit...ttyacids2.html


Like I said, I banned trans fats, and now my short-term memory has improved, and I scored dramatically better on a Civil Service promotional exam.

That strongly supports paragraph 2, above.

Get the trans fats out, and enjoy better health.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

The one study I've honed in on is the Harvard Study YOU posted. This study is a recap of ALL the best studies which can support a risk to trans fat consumption including at least 3 EUROPEAN studies. The Keys study, the Scottish Study, and the Euramic study found risks of 1.24, 1.26-women/1.08-men, and .97 respectively. If you have some other European studies that were missed please let me know.

The Harvard study then used a combination of 3 large studies including Willetts own Nurses Health Study and found a risk of 1.31.

Any epidemiologist that calls a 1.31 risk anything more than a weak association is dishonest.

"Alien Substance", please. Then cooking with heat is alien, churning milk to make butter is alien, whipping cream to make whipped cream is alien, soaking cucumbers in acetic acid is alien. Trans fats do occur naturally.
This site lists no references, I like to see risk analyses with confidence intervals and statistical significance.


Mentions Willett?, no it sites the entire Harvard Report epidemiology section word for word, which again was authored by Willett, we've covered this ground.

No I haven't made that argument, but I have pointed out the possibly the largest study the Nurses Heath Study, didn't find an association between high cholesterol and heart disease.



That was a study of 249 patients in Boston, the Nurses study was around 90,000. Willett did the Boston study by the way.
I'm curious why they only mention man-made chemicals risks. Sounds sort of technophobic, with industry bad as a given. There are lots of natural chemicals that pose risks that are also allowed to remain in the market. Most natural produce hasn't been tested in any way, even though it is known that most plants produce pesticide for their own survival that could be causing all kinds of problems that we haven't made associations with.

That's great as I've said many times, but testimonials aren't strong evidence, you had a good chance of living just as long without doing anything about your cholesterol. You may be an extreme example, didn't you say you lived on cookies and peanut butter, and until 18 months ago you somehow thought that was healthy?

My father-in-law would have me believe that coffee enemas, and rubbing essential oils anally, have made him feel healthier too.

My problem is when you want to ban trans fat with laws, the evidence I see says in moderation trans fats are a non-issue. To me the real issue comes when politicians and activists think they can ban their way to a risk free world.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

No surprise to me footnote 4 above is the source of nearly twice the risks of heart attacks.
4. Willett WC, Ascherio A. Trans fatty acids: Are the effects only marginal? Am J Public Health 1994; 84:722-724.

That is the relative risk of 1.93 from one permutation of the Nurses Health Study done by Willett. I wish I could find an explanation as to why it is also reported 1.53, and 1.33 from the same data.

I haven't addressed the brain aspect of trans fats as I haven't researched this. It would have been nice if the Scientific Psychic gave more links to the studies it footnotes. I can't evaluate this report with no data.

As you can see I don't trust epidemiological studies that have no statistically significant backing, which is the case with most trans fat studies. Even statistical significants doesn't mean cause, these studies can only corrolate possible causes, not prove cause.

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

From Wikipedia:

Unlike other fats, trans fats are neither required nor beneficial for health.[1] Eating trans fat increases the risk of coronary heart disease.[2] For these reasons, health authorities worldwide recommend that consumption of trans fat be reduced to trace amounts. Trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils are generally considered to be more of a health risk than those occurring naturally.[3]
Trans fats are increasingly being linked to chronic health conditions, are tightly regulated in a few countries, are mandatory on product labels in many others, and are the central issue in several ongoing lawsuits (particularly against fast food outlets). Many companies are voluntarily removing trans fats from their products, or establishing trans-free product lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat

Wendy's has removed trans fats from their menu. Kentucky Fried Chicken has announced it will do so in April, 2007.

I'd like to know how anyone can consider partially hydrogenated oils as "normal," when they are created under high temperatures and pressures, in an atomosphere of hydrogen, and in the presence of metal catalysts. I'd call that "alien" every time.

What part of "raises LDL and lowers HDL" do you not understand? That's what partially hydrogenated oil does. That is accepted medical fact. Rather than quibble about the reliability of one study you might better study up on cholesterol and what cholesterol numbers mean, and the mechanism by which cholesterol plugs up coronary heart arteries and leads directly to heart attacks.

Many countries in Europe allow only 4% of trans fatty acids in any foods made with hydrogenated oils, some ban them altogether. Do these countries know something we don't? Some countries like Denmark have banned hydrogenated oils for over 40 years. It is interesting that Denmark has the lowest diagnosed rates of heart disease, cancers, breast cancer, diabetes, auto-immune diseases than any other country in the world. What is even more interesting is that they consume more saturated fat in the form of dairy products. Again, do they know something we don't? No, we know it, we're just not paying attention to the research studies.

from: http://www.dldewey.com/hydroil.htm

and

Dr. Frank Sacks, MD and Karin Michels, M.S. M.P.H. of the Harvard Schools of Public Health issued a statement in February, 1995 in the New England Journal of Medicine. He stated, "American food manufacturers are still manipulating our foods in a way that current scientific research shows that trans fatty acids compromise health. Furthermore, the lack of information on trans-fatty acids on food labels does not allow one to make an informed decision or choice." Recent studies show that as little as 4% of these trans-fatty acids can cause these disease processes. This could open food companies up to lawsuits from people with these diseases. This is no different than what has happened in the tobacco industry lawsuits. Why did it take the FDA ten years to finally issue the mandatory warning on cigarette packets that cigarette smoking is dangerous to your health from the warning that it may be dangerous to your health? The same principals, politics and lobbying from the tobacco industry to keep themselves out of lawsuits for years are at play here. It is all about money and the FDA has gone along with it. It's very simple. 10 - 44% of trans fatty acids in foods are deadly to the human body.

The following is from http://www.bantransfats.com/abouttransfat.html

Click here for a New York Times article about HDL cholesterol. Here is an extract:

"There is considerable evidence linking an increased risk of heart disease and stroke more strongly to low HDL levels than to high LDL levels. For every one-milligram rise in "good cholesterol," the risk for developing cardiovascular disease falls by 2 percent to 3 percent. A level of 60 milligrams or higher helps to protect against this major killer.

In addition to enabling the body to get rid of unwanted cholesterol, HDL also acts in several other protective ways: as an antioxidant deterring the harmful oxidation of LDL, and as an anti-inflammatory agent, helping to repair what is now considered a major player in blood vessel disease. And it has anti-clotting properties, which can help keep blood clots from blocking arteries."

Click here for an article about raising your HDL (good) cholesterol level.

Again, what is it about "trans fats raises LDL and lowers HDL" do you not understand?

go to http://www.bantransfats.com/abouttransfat.html to click on that link.

Again, I've raised my HDL cholesterol from 22 to 42 by eliminating trans fats from my diet.

There is abundant research on the implications of HDL levels to your health. It is accepted fact.

Studies

There have been many studies about the health effects of trans fats. Here are some examples.
1. A major comprehensive study on the health effects of trans fats was published in April 2006 in the New England Journal of Medicine. The study brings together the findings from different studies and contains several findings, including the following:

On a per-calorie basis, trans fats appear to increase the risk of coronary heart disease more than any other macronutrient, conferring a substantially increased risk at low levels of consumption (1 to 3 percent of total energy intake). In a meta-analysis of four prospective cohort studies involving nearly 140,000 subjects, including updated analyses from the two largest studies, a 2 percent increase in energy intake from trans fatty acids was associated with a 23 percent increase in the incidence of coronary heart disease....

Click here to read the study. Click here to read a summary of the study.

2. In a cross-over diet trial, scientists randomly assigned 29 healthy men and women to a diet high in trans fat, or a high saturated fat diet in which the trans fat was replaced by saturated fats. The trans fat came mostly from partially hydrogenated soybean oil and the saturated fat came from palm kernel oil. After four weeks on one diet, the subjects were crossed over to the other diet. For each subject, the researchers took four measurements of artery dilation in the arm. They found that the ability of the blood vessels to dilate was 29 percent lower in people who ate the high trans fat diet compared to those on the saturated fat diet. Blood levels of HDL cholesterol were 21 percent lower in the high trans fat group compared to the high saturated fat group. [De Roos, Bots and Katan: "Replacement of Dietary Saturated Fatty Acids by Trans Fatty Acids Lowers Serum HDL Cholesterol and Impairs Endothelial Function in Healthy Men and Women Atherosclerosis, Thrombosis and Vascular Biology": Journal of the American Heart Association, July 2001.]
3. In a study conducted in Australia, scientists acquired dietary information as well as fat biopsy samples from 79 people. Each had just had a first heart attack. The researchers obtained similar information and biopsy samples from 167 people without heart problems. The researchers inquired specifically about the participants' type and amount of fat intake. The heart patients and healthy individuals were also matched for age, gender, and socioeconomic background. Analysis revealed that trans fats from both animal and vegetable sources were significantly more abundant in the fat tissues of heart attack patients than in the healthy volunteers. The relationship of abundant trans fats with heart risk remained even after the scientists statistically accounted for the effect of saturated fats in the participants’ diets. [Clifton, Keogh and Noakes: "Trans Fatty Acids In Adipose Tissue And The Food Supply Are Associated With Myocardial Infarction."]
4. In a study in Seattle, 179 cases aged 25 to 74 were out-of-hospital cardiac arrest patients attended by paramedics in Seattle from 1988 to 1999. 285 controls, matched to the 179 cases by age and sex, were randomly identified from the community. Participants were free of previous clinically diagnosed heart disease. Blood was obtained at the time of cardiac arrest (cases) or at the time of an interview (controls) to assess trans fat intake. Higher total trans fat in red blood cell membranes was associated with a modest increase in the risk of primary cardiac arrest after adjustment for medical and lifestyle risk factors. While trans isomers of oleic acid were not associated with risk, higher levels of trans isomers of linoleic acid were associated with a three-fold increase in risk. [Cell Membrane Trans-Fatty Acids and the Risk of Primary Cardiac Arrest.]
5. A recent study indicates that keeping HDL cholesterol high may help to reduce the risk of clot-related stroke in elderly men. Click herefor information.
6. Click here for a study about the role of trans fats and systemic inflammation in heart failure.

Above from http://www.bantransfats.com/abouttransfat.html

Trans fats are bad.

Ban them from all our foods.

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Metabolic studies have clearly shown that trans fatty acids (TFAs) elevate LDL and lower HDL cholesterol.

from: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/134/4/874

and

Logistic regression showed that trans 18:1(n-11) (P = 0.03) was an independent predictor of a first MI. (Myocardial infarction - heart attack).

Replacement of Dietary Saturated Fatty Acids by Trans Fatty Acids Lowers Serum HDL Cholesterol and Impairs Endothelial Function in Healthy Men and Women

from: http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/7/1233

Consumption of TFAs resulted in lower HDL-C and a smaller FMD than consumption of saturated fatty acids.

another article:

As compared with the consumption of an equal number of calories from saturated or cis unsaturated fats, the consumption of trans fatty acids raises levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, reduces levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, and increases the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL cholesterol, a powerful predictor of the risk of CHD.21 Trans fats also increase the blood levels of triglycerides as compared with the intake of other fats,20 increase levels of Lp(a) lipoprotein,22 and reduce the particle size of LDL cholesterol,23 each of which may further raise the risk of CHD. Thus, trans fatty acids have markedly adverse effects on serum lipids. Although these effects would be expected to increase the risk of CHD, the relation between the intake of trans fats and the incidence of CHD reported in prospective studies has been greater than that predicted by changes in serum lipid levels alone,20,22 suggesting that trans fatty acids may also influence other risk factors for CHD.

from: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...ef&siteid=nejm

Ah, so that's why my triglycerides are so much better now: the trans fats caused my original level of 393, which was simply awful.

Recent evidence indicates that trans fats promote inflammation.

Because the presence of inflammation is an independent risk factor for atherosclerosis, sudden death from cardiac causes, diabetes, and heart failure,29,30,31,32 the inflammatory effects of trans fats may account in part for their effects on cardiovascular health.

Wow, right, trans fats are wonderful! Yeah, soak my fries in trans fats please MacDonalds!

Several studies suggest that trans fats cause endothelial dysfunction. After adjustment for other risk factors, greater intake of trans fatty acids was associated with increased levels of several markers of endothelial dysfunction

Great, even more wonderful news about trans fats...

Trans fatty acids may influence other risk factors for cardiovascular disease. In controlled trials, consumption of trans fat reduced the activity of serum paraoxonase,35 an enzyme that is closely associated with HDL cholesterol,and impaired the postprandial activity of tissue plasminogen activator.36 Trials evaluating the effects of the consumption of trans fatty acids on insulin sensitivity have shown variable results

Trans fats are wonderful, no doubt about it...

On a per-calorie basis, trans fats appear to increase the risk of CHD more than any other macronutrient, conferring a substantially increased risk at low levels of consumption (1 to 3 percent of total energy intake).

Gosh, the good news just keeps coming about trans fats...

Clifton et al. showed that the positive association between levels of trans fat in adipose tissue and the risk of nonfatal myocardial infarction was mitigated after 1996, when trans fats were eliminated from margarines sold in Australia and trans fat levels decreased in both case patients and controls.

What, eliminate trans fats from margarine? How dare those Aussies do that! Why that's an affront to liberty, I tells ya.

Some data suggest that trans fatty acids may increase the risk of sudden death from cardiac causes.

Well, now that's more like it...

Three prospective studies have investigated the relation between the intake of trans fatty acids and the incidence of diabetes.

Now we're back on the right track! Keep up the good work, trans fats!

All of the above quotes in italics from http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...ef&siteid=nejm

and


Conclusions On the basis of evidence from in vitro experimental studies, dietary trials, and prospective observational studies, the consumption of trans fatty acids from partially hydrogenated oils provides no apparent nutritional benefit and has considerable potential for harm.

Note the long list of references at the bottom of that web page.

Ban trans fats...

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

All this recent Googling convinces me that trans fats are even worse than I thought!

I didn't realize it also contributed to diabetes.

I know for a fact that I am able to lose weight more easily now that I am trans fat free.

good health to all,

Harry

Trans fats-warned 30 years ago.Killed Tropical oils,so hydrogenated oil use increased
 

My father warned me 30 years ago about the trans fats. He went on and on about,"that artificial crap" which is how he referred to the coffee "creamers" that were some of the earliest sources of trans fat. The "crap is like candle wax." He was a Chemist,at times a food chemist-for several years he worked on emulsifiers for foods and cosmetics.
I should have paid more attention. He stuck with butter, when I was switching to corn oil margarine(hydrogenated of course). He also said it was a BIG MISTAKE to cave in to the campaign against Tropical oils that some very rich guy successfully pushed years ago.It is true that Tropical oils-palm, coconut etc did have high levels of saturated fat, but he correctly predicted that Tropical Oils would be replaced with Partially hydrogenated oils-"artificial crap" with loads of trans fat!! In general Tropical oils are probably very slightly less atherogenic than animal fat, and worlds safer than any hydrogenated oil!!
Most food processing involves removing something,adding something,concentrating something, but the underlying nutrients are chemically unchanged.There might be less of them, but they are unchanged. Hydrogenation is one of the few processes that produces wholly "new" chemicals. Some cooking can produce some nasty stuff-flaming on a grill etc-but hydro. was "new". There were plenty of folks-Chemists- who predicted 30+ years ago that it was a mistake.
Unfortunately, hydro. allowed companies to make food products with cheaper oils.Rapeseed oil, soy oil, cottonseed oil were pretty cheap-cheaper than tallow or butter-but in their natural form they were prone to oxidation-they went rancid. Older folks can remember cheap commercial baked products from the 60's-70's that left a peculiar aftertaste in your mouth. The aftertaste was the slightly oxidized-rancid-cheap polyunsaturated vegetable oil(yes, rapeseed is canola oil which is high in monos-the name was "changed "to Canola because rapeseed oil had such a bad rep as nasty tasting stuff-it was really cheap back then because it had a short shelf life,and a nasty taste).It also improved "mouth feel" by raising the melting point.You could make cheap stick margarine with the "feel" of butter.
Food companies embraced Hydro because it kept the items from going rancid-longer shelf life, better taste-and it allowed them to use cheap oils that were used for animal feed in the USA(or lubricants in the distant past like rapeseed oil), or sold overseas for human consumption(cheap calories, and cooking oil).It also allowed them to make oils "look like" fats,so corn oil margarine could look like stick butter. It raised the melting point ,so it was solid at room temp. This also gave the food products better "mouth feel".
Yep, we have poisoned ourselves for the last 35-40 years.
Charlie

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

Even evil corporations see the writing on the wall when activist and profiteering lawyers see a shakedown, and politicians see an opportunity to beat their chests for the sake of the children. You believe it takes a law, I see it happening without government bans.

Yet somehow it occurs naturally, scientists model it off something. Normal is subjective, a lot of food isn't normal, unless we ban everything but raw food. It is all relative, and to me the process of making trans fat isn't alien.

You keep asking this. The articles you have show simply say that HDL is good and LDL is bad with no statistics to back them up. Again I'm skeptical without statistics, I want to analyse real studies not op-eds. From the trans fat epidemiology studies the science is hardly in, weak correlations at best is all I can conclude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthling

Many countries in Europe allow only 4% of trans fatty acids in any foods made with hydrogenated oils, some ban them altogether. Do these countries know something we don't? Some countries like Denmark have banned hydrogenated oils for over 40 years. It is interesting that Denmark has the lowest diagnosed rates of heart disease, cancers, breast cancer, diabetes, auto-immune diseases than any other country in the world. What is even more interesting is that they consume more saturated fat in the form of dairy products. Again, do they know something we don't? No, we know it, we're just not paying attention to the research studies.

---

Did Denmark banned trans fat 40 years ago?, the second paragraph of the above site says that Denmark enacted a ban in 2003?, did you mean 3 years ago, wow quick results in only 3 years.

The first line of the above site is "David Lawrence Dewey was the first journalist to raise the warning flag to consumers concerning the deadly health effects of hydrogenated oils in 1996." Dewey does have an ego. Willett might argue with him, but Willett wouldn't call himself a report and so he might have to concede. Call me a litle skeptical of this dubious site. As I read further I see the common trick of stating how cancer has increased from 1973 year until 2004 but not including an adjustment for age. Cancer is a disease of old age and our population had grown significantly older, it is no surprise that there is more cancer. The truth is that the same number of 45 year old and 55 year old and 65 years olds are getting the same kinds of cancer, but because the average life span has gone up, there are more 80 year olds and 90 years olds still living long enough to also die of cancer. Age adjusted cancer rates simply haven't gone up.

Dewey appears to be among the the conspiracy theorists that believe that Aspertame and Splenda and MSG are deadly poisons, can we simply discredit his site on this evidence. Life expectancy keeps going up while crack pots like Dewey try to claim there is mass death and illness from these products. He does no studies, just spins anecdotes and claims with no solid footnotes.

Should we really get into the tabacco lawsuits. They are nothing more than an agreement between tobacco and government to allow both to keep the money coming in with tobacco getting an agreed upon monopoly with government getting an agreed upon payoff and tax revenue which it promised to spend on reducing new smokers and helping smokers quite, while actually spending it on what ever it feels like. Ultimately a tax on the poor who continue to smoke anyway.

But American Spirit cigarettes are all natural, nothing alien.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Earthling

Click here for a New York Times article about HDL cholesterol. Here is an extract:

"There is considerable evidence linking an increased risk of heart disease and stroke more strongly to low HDL levels than to high LDL levels. For every one-milligram rise in "good cholesterol," the risk for developing cardiovascular disease falls by 2 percent to 3 percent. A level of 60 milligrams or higher helps to protect against this major killer.

In addition to enabling the body to get rid of unwanted cholesterol, HDL also acts in several other protective ways: as an antioxidant deterring the harmful oxidation of LDL, and as an anti-inflammatory agent, helping to repair what is now considered a major player in blood vessel disease. And it has anti-clotting properties, which can help keep blood clots from blocking arteries."

---

Op-Ed piece, not stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earthling

Click here for an article about raising your HDL (good) cholesterol level.

Again, what is it about "trans fats raises LDL and lowers HDL" do you not understand?

---

More op-ed, no data or footnotes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Earthling

Again, I've raised my HDL cholesterol from 22 to 42 by eliminating trans fats from my diet.

There is abundant research on the implications of HDL levels to your health. It is accepted fact.

---

Good for you, but you haven't shown us the facts yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Earthling

Studies

There have been many studies about the health effects of trans fats. Here are some examples.
1. A major comprehensive study on the health effects of trans fats was published in April 2006 in the New England Journal of Medicine. The study brings together the findings from different studies and contains several findings, including the following:

On a per-calorie basis, trans fats appear to increase the risk of coronary heart disease more than any other macronutrient, conferring a substantially increased risk at low levels of consumption (1 to 3 percent of total energy intake). In a meta-analysis of four prospective cohort studies involving nearly 140,000 subjects, including updated analyses from the two largest studies, a 2 percent increase in energy intake from trans fatty acids was associated with a 23 percent increase in the incidence of coronary heart disease....

Click here to read the study. Click here to read a summary of the study.

---

Great a rehash of the 3 studies that we already confirmed gave a risk factor of 1.31, accept now it combines 4 studies and concludes 1.23, we are getting weaker and weaker with this correlation.

Here is a graph from the above study that puts it into perspective for me.
http://content.nejm.org/content/vol3...arge/09f4.jpeg
It would appear that the Nurse's Study was downgraded to the relative risk of 1.33 instead of the 1.93 and the Zutphen study was added to make 4 so our best evidence went from 1.31 to 1.23. All the op-eds that said "nearly double the risk" need to reword it to say, "new study finds that trans fat is nearly two thirds less dangerous as once believed" You don't seem to mind when op-eds dwell on a single study as those that used the 1.93 now 1.33 Nurses study did? Keeps coming back to Willett.

I'd think they'd stop using the EURAMIC study, it shows transfat reduced the risk of heart disease.

Should I start asking what part ofthe National Cancer Institute's statement - "In epidemiologic research, relative risks of less than 2 are considered small and usually difficult to interpret. Such increases may be due to chance, statistical bias or effects of confounding factors that are sometimes not evident" do you not understand?

These are the best studies and honest epidemiologists don't consider a 1.23 risk factor worth mention. Politicians, activist, and lawyers on the other hand try to use such data as solid evidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Earthling

2. In a cross-over diet trial, scientists randomly assigned 29 healthy men and women to a diet high in trans fat, or a high saturated fat diet in which the trans fat was replaced by saturated fats. The trans fat came mostly from partially hydrogenated soybean oil and the saturated fat came from palm kernel oil. After four weeks on one diet, the subjects were crossed over to the other diet. For each subject, the researchers took four measurements of artery dilation in the arm. They found that the ability of the blood vessels to dilate was 29 percent lower in people who ate the high trans fat diet compared to those on the saturated fat diet. Blood levels of HDL cholesterol were 21 percent lower in the high trans fat group compared to the high saturated fat group. [De Roos, Bots and Katan: "Replacement of Dietary Saturated Fatty Acids by Trans Fatty Acids Lowers Serum HDL Cholesterol and Impairs Endothelial Function in Healthy Men and Women Atherosclerosis, Thrombosis and Vascular Biology": Journal of the American Heart Association, July 2001.]

---

You finally brought up some real science, not the stuff Willett is peddling. This small study indeed shows that on average if you eat 9.2% transfat you will see a lowering of HDL of 20%, you must have been eating considerably more than 9.2% on you cookie and peanut butter diet to get your nearly 50% increase in HDL. The report said that the average intake of transfat was between 4-7% or significantly less than the diet of the test people. I'd like to see the same data for .5%, 1%, 1.5%, 2%, etc up to 9% to see how linear this HDL reduction is.

That it for now, getting late, your googling is getting better.;)

Still hasn't convinced me that government bans are the way to go, threats of law suits seem to be working, government has a way of stepping in after market forces are at work solving real and perceived problems.

Avoid trans fat, and government bans.:omg:

Re: Trans fats-warned 30 years ago.Killed Tropical oils,so hydrogenated oil use incre
 

Agreed.

The burden is on the food industry to prove that partially hydrogenated oils are safe, and not the other way around.

The proof says trans fats are harmful and in fact deadly.

Trans fats have to go.

Informed consumers should ban trans fats themselves, simply due to the compelling evidence and the fact that government is far too slow to act, with smoking a prime example of that.

Regarding HDL:

What is HDL cholesterol?
About one-third to one-fourth of blood cholesterol is carried by HDL. Medical experts think HDL tends to carry cholesterol away from the arteries and back to the liver, where it's passed from the body. Some experts believe HDL removes excess cholesterol from plaques and thus slows their growth. HDL cholesterol is known as "good" cholesterol because a high HDL level seems to protect against heart attack. The opposite is also true: a low HDL level (less than 40 mg/dL in men; less than 50 mg/dL in women) indicates a greater risk. A low HDL cholesterol level also may raise stroke risk.

That is from http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4488

I trust that source as being well-informed.

It is important to note what lab values ARE associated with risk for heart disease. The two most important are the HDL/Cholesterol and Triglyceride/HDL ratios. Generally the HDL ratio should be above 25 and preferably in the 30s. If it is in the 40s, that nearly guarantees immunity from heart disease. Whereas if it is below 15, and certainly below 10, a heart attack is inevitable. To calculate the ratio simply divide your TOTAL cholesterol by your HDL and multiply by 100 (move the decimal point over two places to the right). It is just a matter of when, not if, it will happen. The triglyceride ratio should be below 2.0.

The above is from: http://www.mercola.com/1998/archive/...sease_risk.htm

The new drugs either raise "good" cholesterol (HDL) or try to improve its effectiveness. That's because HDL is a kind of blood-borne barge that hauls fat from the artery wall to the liver for excretion. Studies show that people with high levels of HDL have cleaner arteries and less risk of heart attack.

That is from http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...se-cover_x.htm
Why is HDL the good cholesterol?

HDL is the good cholesterol because it protects the arteries from the atherosclerosis process. HDL cholesterol extracts cholesterol particles from the artery walls and transports them to the liver to be disposed through the bile. It also interferes with the accumulation of LDL cholesterol particles in the artery walls.
The risk of atherosclerosis and heart attacks in both men and is strongly related to HDL cholesterol levels. Low levels of HDL cholesterol are linked to a higher risk, whereas high HDL cholesterol levels are associated with a lower risk.
Very low and very high HDL cholesterol levels can run in families. Families with low HDL cholesterol levels have a higher incidence of heart attacks than the general population, while families with high HDL cholesterol levels tend to live longer with a lower frequency of heart attacks.

from http://www.medicinenet.com/cholesterol/page4.htm

The Framingham Heart Study has been a strong proponent of the concept that a low serum HDL-cholesterol level is a major risk factor for CHD.51525354555657 Framingham reports advise that the inverse association between HDL-cholesterol levels and CHD risk at least equals the positive association between CHD risk and serum LDL-cholesterol levels. Data from Framingham were influential in the NCEP decision to classify a low HDL level as a major risk factor for CHD.23

from http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/97/18/1876

Okay, there's the proof that HDL levels are strongly correlated to heart disease, and that low HDL is deadly.

Trans fats lower HDL. That is scientific fact.

Regarding "peanut butter and cookies diet," sure that was unhealthy. But it was unhealthy because the dangers of partially hydrogenated oils have been kept hush-hush. Keep in mind that all french fries at fast-food restaurants, all fried chicken, all baked goods such as pies and cakes, all of that is saturated in partially hydrogenated oils, so the typical American is exposed to extremely high levels of trans fats, isn't aware of that, and has no clue of the deadly health effects.

That has to change, and if it takes a government ban on trans fats, so be it.


good health to all,

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

There are bright spots in the battle against trans fats:

Wendy's International Inc. has reduced trans fats by switching to a different cooking oil, while McDonald's Corp. has been trying since 2002 to reduce trans fats in its french fries.

"We've served million of servings, and customers cannot tell the difference in taste," said Bob Bertini, a spokesman for Wendy's. "It was cost-neutral to us -- using the new oil costs no more than the old oil."

I'll go out of my way to eat at a Wendy's. They've always emphasized quality and customer service.

from http://heart.healthcentersonline.com...rorwellian.cfm

The Dunkin' Donuts chain in 2004 started removing trans fats from its bagels, muffins, and cookies and is researching alternative ways to make the poster child of trans fats -- doughnuts -- healthier while still satisfying customers.

That's good news: I can eat cookies and blueberry muffins again. I've always appreciated their coffee. You can check their ingredients online.

Dec 21 (Reuters) - A lawmaker introduced a bill on Tuesday that would make Massachusetts the first U.S. state to ban artificial trans fats from restaurants, closely following New York City's ban of the artery-clogging oils.

Good luck, Massachusetts. from
http://heart.healthcentersonline.com...sachusetts.cfm

Harry

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

I've noticed lately my blue jeans are really loose around my waistline. And I haven't been doing any dieting at all. I am at my ideal weight.

This may provide a clue:



"Diets rich in trans fat cause a redistribution of fat tissue into the abdomen and lead to a higher body weight even when the total dietary calories are controlled," said Lawrence L. Rudel, Ph.D., professor of pathology and biochemistry and head of the Lipid Sciences Research Program.


“What it says is that trans fat is worse than anticipated,” Rudel said. “I was surprised.”


According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), consumption of saturated fat, trans fat, and dietary cholesterol raises low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or "bad" cholesterol, levels, which increases the risk of coronary artery disease.


“We conclude that in equivalent diets, trans fatty acid consumption increases weight gain,” said Kavanagh.


Over the entire course of the study, there was a small but significant difference in weight between the two groups. “In the world of diabetes, everybody knows that just 5 percent weight loss makes enormous difference,” Kavanagh said. “This little difference was biologically quite significant.”

Rudel said, “The study was specifically funded to look at the role of trans fatty acids in atherosclerosis.”


He said that at the time he got a grant from the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, there was not much evidence in the literature and no animal models that documented the hazards of trans fats, though there are data showing it was a risk factor for atherosclerosis.

Kavanagh said the six-year length of the study was equivalent to 20 years in people.


According to the FDA, trans fat is found in vegetable shortenings, some margarines, crackers, cookies, snack foods, and other foods made with or fried in partially hydrogenated oils. Unlike other fats, the majority of trans fat is formed when food manufacturers turn liquid oils into solid fats like shortening and hard margarine by adding hydrogen.


Since Jan. 1, the FDA has required the amount of trans fat to be listed in the nutrition facts panel on all foods. But the restaurant industry is exempt.


Other researchers on the American Diabetes Society report include Janice D. Wagner, Ph.D., D.V.M., John Jeffrey Carr, M.D., Kate Jones, B.S., Janet Sawyer, M.S., and Kathryn Kelly., B.S., all from Wake Forest University School of Medicine. from http://www.bantransfats.com/index.html

Harry

1.2 RR can be significant-especially if dose effect present.TROPICAL OILS
 

Earthling,I'm not quoting you exactly, but a 1.2 RR can be significant. If the study is big enough it can be significant in the stat. sense, and if the population at risk is big enough, it can be significant in the "dead people" sense. Yes, everyone becomes a dead person, but depending on when they die, it can mean years of life lost.
The 1.2 RR can be even more suggestive, if it is accompanied by a dose effect.The more you eat, the more likely the bad event is to happen. Eat none, have a .5 RR-eat like a pig, have a 1.5 RR-eat "normally" have maybe a 1 RR. Studies of this sort can't absolutely prove cause beyond a shadow of a doubt, but if there is a dose effect present, it is pretty suggestive.
Now,laws, and other forms of pressure, can have unintended consequences(if you get it wrong). The rich guy(Paul Sokolof) who lobbied against tropical oils is a case in point. He was so successful that all the FF places quit using Tropical oils(and the countries agricultural industry-mainly poor-took a huge hit). Of course, the FF places switched from "Bad" Tropical Oils to unsaturated oils that were slightly "modified." This well meaning too well healed crusader was probably responsible for many 1000's of man-years of life lost.It really hit the economy of the Phillipines, Malaysia etc.
Tropical oils are much better food products than hydro veg oils.Butter is most certainly much safer than the alternatives we were offered for the last 30 years(yes,I know that there are new preps out there that are essentially unmodified Canola oil-).Canola Oil taste like crap relative to butter.
There has been a lot of going off half cocked in respect to individual components of diet. However. the current wisdom on Hydro Veg oils-that isn't half cocked-that jury is in. It was/is a crummy food. The alarm on hydro oils went out well over 30 years ago.
I don't think the "free market" is always the best answer.Partially because the "market" is never free(soy oil producers lobbied against Trop oils, so they could sell more hydro oil)-it is always subject to political pressure(MONEY $$$$).There is no free market.
If the government had waited on the car manufacturers to install seatbelts/airbags etc how many 100,000 years of life would have been lost.
Now,should folks be protected from themselves? Yes,sometimes. Why? Because many people are ignorant fools and would rather buy fancy audio equipment for their cars than the safety items that will save the lives of their children.
On other subjects-illegal drugs for example-I think they should be legalized-just like Tobacco.No one is ever killed for a cigarette.Tax them, and run clever ads to discourage use/over use of them. Waaay to many folks are in jail because of this really stupid "WAR ON DRUGS.". Now we are in a real war-shouldn't be wasting resources on BS "war on drugs" crap!!
Hmmm,I am shooting wide of the mark!.Sorry.
Charlie

Re: 1.2 RR can be significant-especially if dose effect present.TROPICAL OILS
 

Charlie, I agree whole-heartedly.

I am still eating plenty of peanut butter sandwiches and cookies. My cookies now have no partially hydrogenated oils. I eat quite a lot of Newmans' Own cookies which have palm oil. Regular cholesterol testing reveals that my cholesterol numbers are "perfect," so the tropical oils in my case are not doing me harm, and are not impacting my cholesterol numbers in any negative way.

I have switched to Smuckers "old fashioned" peanut butter which has all of two ingredients: peanuts and salt. Peanut butter is actually a very healthy product as long as it has no partially hydrogenated oils. The big food giants managed to ruin a healthy product: they took the very healthy peanut oil out and replaced it with partially hydrogenated soybean oil!

People can't be faulted for consuming partially hydrogenated oils when they are not informed of the negative health effects. I became very angry when I realized the harm it had done me, with no one informing me of the dangers. Why isn't the government doing more to warn people? (Lobbyists, probably).

By the way, this isn't just a case of deaths. In fact, I would argue that the most serious effect of a diet that contains partially hydrogenated oils is the harder to measure short-term memory problems and cognitive decline. I had some of that, and it is frightening.

I am feeling so much better and so much sharper now that I have been free of partially hydrogenated oils for almost 18 months. It's nice to know that my cholesterol numbers are so good now that my arteries are being cleaned out now, and not clogged. That is having a tremendous effect on my future health and quality of life in my later years.

Thanks, Charlie.

Harry

Smuckers-my favorite!! DOSE EFFECT-MEANT FOR WORTHYWADS
 

Earthling,
Smuckers peanut butter. I LOVE peanut butter, and switched to it,FROM PETER PAN-8 or so years ago. I wish I had done it sooner.
Funny, my dad warned me about the hydrogenated oils many, many years ago(at least 30), but I kinda thought he was just using it as an excuse to use butter-instead of "healty" vegetable oil margerine, and cream/milk in his coffee instead of the substitutes.He loved eating milk products-butter, milk,ice cream etc. I thought I was doing something healthy by using Fleishmanns Corn oil margarine (mis-spelled probably) instead of butter.It wasn't until about 8-10 years ago that the atherogenic properties of hydrogenated oils became publicised-and that was mainly in professional journals.
The general public wasn't made aware of the problems until maybe 4-5 years ago.Your Nemesis-worthywads- is somewhat correct that the "final word"-definitive science isn't as dead clear as you would like it to be. It takes a long,long time to study the long term effects of a food product, or a medication, on humans -we live 80 years- and we are exposed to 1000's of chemicals, environmental exposures(radon,ozone,sunlight,electric fields,X-Raya,Gamma rays,STDs,millions of pathogens-the list goes on). It is really hard to pin to blame on the intake of one chemical.
HOWEVER,the fact that some of the better studies have shown a clear DOSE EFFECT of Trans fats is a pretty good indicator that they are to be avoided!!!!
WORTHYWADS-I actually meant to address you with my comments on dose effect. I goofed and directed it at earthling. This isn't meant as a personal attack, I've come late to this discussion, but there is good evidence that consuming trans fats is a health risk. Epidemiologists don't snear at 1.2 RR if the study is big enough,and it is a significant result. Of course a 1.2 RR of getting a hang nail isn't a big deal-1.2 of having an MI 6 months "early" is a big deal. Nothing personal.
I don't think big corps intentionally set out to make a bad product-WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?? I don't think they attempted to conceal some "smoking gun." It just turns out that the trans fats are bad for you-mildly poisonous.No bad intent. They are in business to make money by delivering a good food product.They just missed a bit-
THIS IS A CAUTIONARY TALE ON MANY LEVELS-The sub of the hydro for Tropical oils because of lobbying by "health interest groups", and USA agricultural groups.The condemnation of eggs and milk products in favor of the "polyunsaturated oils". The modification of the unsat oils to a chemical animals had never consumed (but that happens a lot in food processing and in drug manu).I'm not sure how, or if, this could have been avoided?!
Oh well,
Merry Christmas,
Charlie

Re: Health tip: managing cholesterol
 

One of the best ways to reduce your cholesterol is to incorporate alot of beans in your diet. My cholesterol has been around 120-140 for the past 15 years. It was lowest when I was in grad school and lived off a diet of kidney, pinto, and black beans mixed with sauted (in olive oil) onions, green peppers, garlic, and other spices.

I seasoned the mix with rice wine vinegar to give it a slightly tangy, sweet taste, and made simple burritos or fajitas out of them using gourmet tortillas, or whatever bread you can think of.

Beans...I tell you folks...it will do wonders.

Re: 1.2 RR can be significant-especially if dose effect present.TROPICAL OILS
 

Harry,

Try learning how to bake your own...it's VERY VERY easy. You can make the mix in less than ten minutes...add your own ingredients, and you have it. I know it sounds wierd but flavour your cookies with olive oil, not butter...egg whites, not eggs, and season to taste (i.e...low sugar, salt) they come out very chewy, add, almonds, cranberries, blue berries, whatever...

It's so easy to make it's a crime to pay for them believe me....and they are SO MUCH better than store bought stuff.