Aftermarket intakes
#11
07-24-2008, 03:22 PM
Re: Aftermarket intakes
Glad too help. I may be new here, but I've been a "car guy" for 20+ years... as well as a "computer guy" for 15+ years. So the TCH was a natural selection for my new car.
For me this has been a major change for me; going from trying to get 350+ HP out of a 1.8L motor rated at 180, to trying to get 60+ MPG out of a Hybrid rated at 34.
For me this has been a major change for me; going from trying to get 350+ HP out of a 1.8L motor rated at 180, to trying to get 60+ MPG out of a Hybrid rated at 34.
#12
07-24-2008, 09:55 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: Aftermarket intakes
In simple terms....
A Cold Air Intake isn't good for a hybrid, as you want to keep the engine as warm as possible, also you don't need the extra air density. (Notice I said Need) This isn't an issue of getting more power.
As for a nice K&N Filter, yes, they flow very well. *IF* you service them correctly. There is an advantage to a free-flow filter. I wont go into the physics of Volumetric Efficiency, but the bottom line is that you want to reduce the power wasted trying to suck in the air. In a normal I.C.E. you are trying to reduce the amount of energy wasted on the intake stroke.
Think of it like this; take a shirt and put a single layer over your nose and mouth. Now breath. Next, double the thickness and breath. Now you have increased the amount of energy required to breath in.
Now run around the block quickly three times and then repeat the above test. See the difference..??
Now that double thickness cloth provides REAL resistance to "intake" airlflow.
Here is the catch. The TCH is NOT a Otto-Cycle 4-Stroke engine. It's also not a true Atkinson-Cycle. What they have done is taken an Otto-Cycle engine (Normal 4-Stroke... Intake, Compression, Combustion, Exhaust) and modified the intake valve timing to mimic that of an Atkinson-Cycle. What that does is allows the intake charge to be PUSHED BACK OUT of the intake valve during part of the compression cycle.
I haven't done the math on this... I'm sure that I will get board one day and do it. But I have a strong feeling that a more free flowing filter may cause a fairly large change to the overall MPG.
It's very possible that allowing MORE of the intake charge to be pushed back out is going to REDUCE the overall power of the I.C.E.
You have overlooked something important. With a 4 cyclinder engine that intake charge being forced back out of the cylinder in the compression stroke flows directly over into the "opposite" cylinder now in an intake stroke.
Part of the reason Mazda used the Miller Cycle on their 6 cylinder, absent the positive displacement SuperCharger there would be reverse flow "pulses/pulsing" in the intake path.
Now, you may be thinking "Hey, that's great, less power means less fuel." But wait, what about the battery. That would mean MORE electricity is needed, and ultimately causing the I.C.E. run more/longer.
SOOOOO
Who is going to put out the $50 for a K&N and the $75 for a take of fuel and try it??
(Any thoughts? Comments? Corrections? Please... if you are going to respond, be nice and be accurate. if you don't understand ALL of that.. don't respond.)
A Cold Air Intake isn't good for a hybrid, as you want to keep the engine as warm as possible, also you don't need the extra air density. (Notice I said Need) This isn't an issue of getting more power.
As for a nice K&N Filter, yes, they flow very well. *IF* you service them correctly. There is an advantage to a free-flow filter. I wont go into the physics of Volumetric Efficiency, but the bottom line is that you want to reduce the power wasted trying to suck in the air. In a normal I.C.E. you are trying to reduce the amount of energy wasted on the intake stroke.
Think of it like this; take a shirt and put a single layer over your nose and mouth. Now breath. Next, double the thickness and breath. Now you have increased the amount of energy required to breath in.
Now run around the block quickly three times and then repeat the above test. See the difference..??
Now that double thickness cloth provides REAL resistance to "intake" airlflow.
Here is the catch. The TCH is NOT a Otto-Cycle 4-Stroke engine. It's also not a true Atkinson-Cycle. What they have done is taken an Otto-Cycle engine (Normal 4-Stroke... Intake, Compression, Combustion, Exhaust) and modified the intake valve timing to mimic that of an Atkinson-Cycle. What that does is allows the intake charge to be PUSHED BACK OUT of the intake valve during part of the compression cycle.
I haven't done the math on this... I'm sure that I will get board one day and do it. But I have a strong feeling that a more free flowing filter may cause a fairly large change to the overall MPG.
It's very possible that allowing MORE of the intake charge to be pushed back out is going to REDUCE the overall power of the I.C.E.
You have overlooked something important. With a 4 cyclinder engine that intake charge being forced back out of the cylinder in the compression stroke flows directly over into the "opposite" cylinder now in an intake stroke.
Part of the reason Mazda used the Miller Cycle on their 6 cylinder, absent the positive displacement SuperCharger there would be reverse flow "pulses/pulsing" in the intake path.
Now, you may be thinking "Hey, that's great, less power means less fuel." But wait, what about the battery. That would mean MORE electricity is needed, and ultimately causing the I.C.E. run more/longer.
SOOOOO
Who is going to put out the $50 for a K&N and the $75 for a take of fuel and try it??
(Any thoughts? Comments? Corrections? Please... if you are going to respond, be nice and be accurate. if you don't understand ALL of that.. don't respond.)
#13
12-24-2008, 11:00 AM
Re: Aftermarket intakes
I have the K&N flat filter on my TCH, and it has been in there for about 4 months. The first hour or so it was in there was a small difference, but since then I can't detect much of a change. It may have helped my mpg by 1-2mpg, maybe, but as said in here previously, if you want something that's easy to clean, and want to reduce the Cost of buying some paper filter at every other oil change, then this can make sense to get.
#14
12-25-2008, 04:05 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Aftermarket intakes
The TCH has a cold air intake, well almost. It's flat and right above the hot radiator. A person would have to insulate all the plastic intake air ducts to keep them cool. That's ok during the summer. The engine may actually run better during the winter with some warm air in the intake.
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