Another Mountain Driving Experience
#1
09-04-2010, 09:28 PM
Another Mountain Driving Experience
Thought I’d share with you all some feedback how the TCH (2009/8500 miles) performed in mountain driving.
The wife and I just spent 7 days vacationing and traveling across Colorado from Denver to include Glenwood Springs, Grand Junction, down through Montrose, Ouray, Telluride, Gunnison, Buena Vista, Fair Play, Bailey, and back to Denver. Put a total of 1014 miles on the car. Went over at least 7+ mountain passes with some over 12,000 feet.
The TCH performed perfectly and exceeded expectations with an average of 40.01 mpg hand calculated (MFD = 41.40). That was driving speed limit or 1 or 2 mph over – indicated on the Gamin as we all know the speedometer in the car over reads (dash speedometer indicates 68 mph when the portable Garmin Nuvi indicates 65/66 mph). I’m quite pleased with the MPG’s for a car of this size with the wife, me, and plenty of luggage/weigh in the trunk.
As you are probably aware, there are some great swings in average MPG especially when going up a mountain pass at 65 mph (the average MPG goes way down as the motor often would run at and over 3600 rpms), but you actually gain coming down the other side … I expected to lose a few MPGs since the car works fairly hard going up, but that is not the case. I found on most passes, I actually gained MPGs on the other side. I also noticed that using the “B” brake on the transmission to help slow the car on the down side actually works quite well, but also reduces the MPGs. Let me explain, going down the other side at 50/60 mph and occasionally gently using the brakes (to regenerate power), the Scan Gauge would read 160+mpg … if I put the tranny in the “B” brake mode, the MPGs would drop down to around 50mpg … returning the tranny back to Drive the MPGs again would pop of the 160+mpg.
My best average MPG indicated on the SG was 226mpg. This was obtained in about an 8 mile drive coming down the mountain pass between Silverton and Ouray. The wife and I stopped at the top of the pass which reset the SG. Leaving the top of the mountain and heading down into Ouray there is a lot of slow driving and some switchbacks where the motor ran very little and I hardly ever exceeded 42mph -- therefore with the motor running very little resulted in the great MPGs. Of course using the breaks occasionally to slow car really charged the battery and the battery was always completely full coming down all the passes. During these times I used the A/C as cold temperature as we could stand and without the ECO button turned on – hoping to use the excess power that was being generated. Drove a total of about 50 miles on that leg to Telluride and when we stopped in the city of Telluride the SC still read over 51mpg.
Hope I didn’t bore you, but was very happy with the power the car had to make it over the mountain passes and the MPGs I was able to get on this trip with very little trying.
The wife and I just spent 7 days vacationing and traveling across Colorado from Denver to include Glenwood Springs, Grand Junction, down through Montrose, Ouray, Telluride, Gunnison, Buena Vista, Fair Play, Bailey, and back to Denver. Put a total of 1014 miles on the car. Went over at least 7+ mountain passes with some over 12,000 feet.
The TCH performed perfectly and exceeded expectations with an average of 40.01 mpg hand calculated (MFD = 41.40). That was driving speed limit or 1 or 2 mph over – indicated on the Gamin as we all know the speedometer in the car over reads (dash speedometer indicates 68 mph when the portable Garmin Nuvi indicates 65/66 mph). I’m quite pleased with the MPG’s for a car of this size with the wife, me, and plenty of luggage/weigh in the trunk.
As you are probably aware, there are some great swings in average MPG especially when going up a mountain pass at 65 mph (the average MPG goes way down as the motor often would run at and over 3600 rpms), but you actually gain coming down the other side … I expected to lose a few MPGs since the car works fairly hard going up, but that is not the case. I found on most passes, I actually gained MPGs on the other side. I also noticed that using the “B” brake on the transmission to help slow the car on the down side actually works quite well, but also reduces the MPGs. Let me explain, going down the other side at 50/60 mph and occasionally gently using the brakes (to regenerate power), the Scan Gauge would read 160+mpg … if I put the tranny in the “B” brake mode, the MPGs would drop down to around 50mpg … returning the tranny back to Drive the MPGs again would pop of the 160+mpg.
My best average MPG indicated on the SG was 226mpg. This was obtained in about an 8 mile drive coming down the mountain pass between Silverton and Ouray. The wife and I stopped at the top of the pass which reset the SG. Leaving the top of the mountain and heading down into Ouray there is a lot of slow driving and some switchbacks where the motor ran very little and I hardly ever exceeded 42mph -- therefore with the motor running very little resulted in the great MPGs. Of course using the breaks occasionally to slow car really charged the battery and the battery was always completely full coming down all the passes. During these times I used the A/C as cold temperature as we could stand and without the ECO button turned on – hoping to use the excess power that was being generated. Drove a total of about 50 miles on that leg to Telluride and when we stopped in the city of Telluride the SC still read over 51mpg.
Hope I didn’t bore you, but was very happy with the power the car had to make it over the mountain passes and the MPGs I was able to get on this trip with very little trying.
#2
09-05-2010, 01:16 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
Tom:
You sure brought back some memories of a vacation trip my wife and I made in the 80's. I had bought a new 81, rather square body vw rabbit diesel.This was a few years before vw puffed up the body and came out with the golf version.
We drove the little diesel up to denver, back to colorado springs then to fairplay, south though salida and over to trinidad to return to dallas. I never got under 50 mpg including the mountains which amazed me. Love that mountain dry air which seems to help the engine run at it's best. I see denver is at 14% at 2 pm for 9/5/2010.
Coming down the steeper mountains with colorados nice highways. I would open the rear windows and turn on the ac on full cold, rather low fan to slow the decent with air best I could. I did use both vent windows which the vw had. I used the brakes some but only a few seconds so they would not get hot. This was only in the steeper grades.
A few weeks ago had to drive the tch to el paso from alamogordo, which is about 150 miles round trip. The mfd readout read 47.5 mpg with the ac on which included some city driving.
I made a trip to las cruces and back when the car was rather new. I got 47 mpg with the ac on. I use that for comparison to your 40+ in the mountains. I was driving on near level highways at 60 with cruise. I did release it when the engine revved for more power half way up the 6000 foot pass. You right the tch does gain lots of mpg on the down side.
I still think the tch is one of the very best cars out there with it's high mpg and a nice smooth ride.
Jimmy
You sure brought back some memories of a vacation trip my wife and I made in the 80's. I had bought a new 81, rather square body vw rabbit diesel.This was a few years before vw puffed up the body and came out with the golf version.
We drove the little diesel up to denver, back to colorado springs then to fairplay, south though salida and over to trinidad to return to dallas. I never got under 50 mpg including the mountains which amazed me. Love that mountain dry air which seems to help the engine run at it's best. I see denver is at 14% at 2 pm for 9/5/2010.
Coming down the steeper mountains with colorados nice highways. I would open the rear windows and turn on the ac on full cold, rather low fan to slow the decent with air best I could. I did use both vent windows which the vw had. I used the brakes some but only a few seconds so they would not get hot. This was only in the steeper grades.
A few weeks ago had to drive the tch to el paso from alamogordo, which is about 150 miles round trip. The mfd readout read 47.5 mpg with the ac on which included some city driving.
I made a trip to las cruces and back when the car was rather new. I got 47 mpg with the ac on. I use that for comparison to your 40+ in the mountains. I was driving on near level highways at 60 with cruise. I did release it when the engine revved for more power half way up the 6000 foot pass. You right the tch does gain lots of mpg on the down side.
I still think the tch is one of the very best cars out there with it's high mpg and a nice smooth ride.
Jimmy
#3
09-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
We were thinking about a trip to Colorado and I was wondering about how the TCH would do. Thanks for the info.
We vacationed in Colorado a few years ago and stayed in two nice bed and breakfasts: The Gazebo and The Poor House. The poor house used to be the poor farm and is on the National historical registry.
We vacationed in Colorado a few years ago and stayed in two nice bed and breakfasts: The Gazebo and The Poor House. The poor house used to be the poor farm and is on the National historical registry.
#4
09-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
Hey MileHigh, good post.
This is the exact driving I described in a related thread. Hills and passes are good for milage because, the engine power is better matched to climb the hills (banking kinetic energy) and the HSD traction battery is good at capturing the access to a point.
As are we... This is BY FAR the best car I have ever owned.
We do the same thing, pushing slightly on the brake to get regenerative braking without using much if any "friction braking". It would be nice if the system had a "friction" light on the dash to show when the brake computer was applying the friction brakes.
What a fantastic idea, the electric compressor would use some of that juice, if the traction electrical powers that. Does the electric compressor get its energy from the traction system?
No! Good stuff!
The wife and I just spent 7 days vacationing and traveling across Colorado from Denver to include Glenwood Springs, Grand Junction, down through Montrose, Ouray, Telluride, Gunnison, Buena Vista, Fair Play, Bailey, and back to Denver. Put a total of 1014 miles on the car. Went over at least 7+ mountain passes with some over 12,000 feet.
I’m quite pleased with the MPG’s for a car of this size with the wife, me, and plenty of luggage/weigh in the trunk.
As you are probably aware, there are some great swings in average MPG especially when going up a mountain pass at 65 mph (the average MPG goes way down as the motor often would run at and over 3600 rpms), but you actually gain coming down the other side … I expected to lose a few MPGs since the car works fairly hard going up, but that is not the case. I found on most passes, I actually gained MPGs on the other side. I also noticed that using the “B” brake on the transmission to help slow the car on the down side actually works quite well, but also reduces the MPGs. Let me explain, going down the other side at 50/60 mph and occasionally gently using the brakes (to regenerate power), the Scan Gauge would read 160+mpg … if I put the tranny in the “B” brake mode, the MPGs would drop down to around 50mpg … returning the tranny back to Drive the MPGs again would pop of the 160+mpg.
Of course using the breaks occasionally to slow car really charged the battery and the battery was always completely full coming down all the passes. During these times I used the A/C as cold temperature as we could stand and without the ECO button turned on – hoping to use the excess power that was being generated. Drove a total of about 50 miles on that leg to Telluride and when we stopped in the city of Telluride the SC still read over 51mpg.
Hope I didn’t bore you, but was very happy with the power the car had to make it over the mountain passes and the MPGs I was able to get on this trip with very little trying.
#5
09-07-2010, 09:08 PM
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
Iinteresting question and I don't know the answer "Does the electric compressor get its energy from the traction system?" Perhaps I was just wasting the wrong energy if the A/C was drawing on the motor battery! Don't tell the wife, she is still trying to thaw out!
Also, when come down hills and gently pressing on the brake, you could hear the familiar whine of the regen system ... however, when the traction batteries were full, the whine would go very light or completly stop and was a good indicator I was using the regular brakes for slowing. So at that point, I even used the brakes less when it was possible or used the "B" mode on the tranny.
Also, when come down hills and gently pressing on the brake, you could hear the familiar whine of the regen system ... however, when the traction batteries were full, the whine would go very light or completly stop and was a good indicator I was using the regular brakes for slowing. So at that point, I even used the brakes less when it was possible or used the "B" mode on the tranny.
#6
09-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
Their are two battery sources in the TCH. The 12 volt instrument battery and the 244-285 volt traction battery.
The AC compressor runs from the traction battery. You can see the rather heavy orange insulated wires going to the compressor.
The deep cycle 12 volt battery is used for the ecu, head and tail lights. all fans and the ignition. I read somewhere it's charged mainly from a 14? volt tap on the traction battery.
The AC compressor runs from the traction battery. You can see the rather heavy orange insulated wires going to the compressor.
The deep cycle 12 volt battery is used for the ecu, head and tail lights. all fans and the ignition. I read somewhere it's charged mainly from a 14? volt tap on the traction battery.
#7
09-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
Their are two battery sources in the TCH. The 12 volt instrument battery and the 244-285 volt traction battery.
The AC compressor runs from the traction battery. You can see the rather heavy orange insulated wires going to the compressor.
The deep cycle 12 volt battery is used for the ecu, head and tail lights. all fans and the ignition. I read somewhere it's charged mainly from a 14? volt tap on the traction battery.
The AC compressor runs from the traction battery. You can see the rather heavy orange insulated wires going to the compressor.
The deep cycle 12 volt battery is used for the ecu, head and tail lights. all fans and the ignition. I read somewhere it's charged mainly from a 14? volt tap on the traction battery.
So, given that A/C runs on the traction Battery, it can be good to use it hard if you want to dump battery charge for a long down-hill run. I really, really, really wish the thing had an "EV" switch to allow me to drain the traction battery hard toward the top of a known long down-hill section of road.
That said, I know that doing so can drive up the temperatures in both MGs and in the battery. High traction component temps are the single biggest problem we have in keeping our cars in the optimum mode of propulsion
. (Low temps are not far behind...)800px-Toyota_1NZ-FXE_Engine_01.JPG <== Click image for full size
You can see from this cut-away of the two MGs, power-splitter, and CVT, that there ain't a lot of cooling space. I am not sure which component reaches heat limits sooner: the battery or the MGs; but I am sure that high temps in either one will degrade the drive/charging mode to prevent damage. I'd love to have more details on this!
Last edited by BBH; 09-08-2010 at 12:15 AM.
#8
09-08-2010, 03:04 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
mg1 and mg2 are cooled internally by the same cooling as the inverter. The small site glass with the pink inside has it's own separate electric pump and radiator. A good idea to keep a eye on the site glass ever now and then to see if it's low.
The inverter converting the 285 dc volts to 600 ac volts gets pretty hot at times. I have read here in the forms that a few TCH owners had a rock cause a leak in the inverter radiator resulting in a damaged inverter.
The inverter converting the 285 dc volts to 600 ac volts gets pretty hot at times. I have read here in the forms that a few TCH owners had a rock cause a leak in the inverter radiator resulting in a damaged inverter.
#9
09-10-2010, 08:36 AM
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
I wish I would have paid attention to my mileage during the trip I just completed (Houston -Portland, OR -Houston). I was VERY loaded down (full trunk plus a cooler in a basket in a hitch. I managed to stay in the 35 to 37 mpg range and considering that I wasn't babying the car on the highway I think that's pretty good. For the record, this was on my 07 which now has a hair over 70K on it. Other than a couple of my wheels getting out of balance the car performed flawlessly.
#10
09-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 1,312
Re: Another Mountain Driving Experience
You bet. that's good on your 35 to 37 mpg on the long trip. That's actually excellent, when I think back to the 1970's of such poor gas mileage.
Back then I had a heavy Olds 98 with the big 455 rocket engine. I got around 16 to 18 mpg highway and that was driving at 60 to 65 with the cruise on trips. Later I bought a '77 Olds cutlass with a 400 cu inch engine. Both cars where carburated. The cutlass got around 18 to 19 mpg highway and about 15 in the city.
I think now of how much the high energy ignitions and fuel injection paid off in higher mpg. Both being controlled by the ECU. You add hybrid and you got near double the gas mileage.
This is another reason I really like the TCH so much. Finally a moderate heavy car that gets high mpg in the city.
Back then I had a heavy Olds 98 with the big 455 rocket engine. I got around 16 to 18 mpg highway and that was driving at 60 to 65 with the cruise on trips. Later I bought a '77 Olds cutlass with a 400 cu inch engine. Both cars where carburated. The cutlass got around 18 to 19 mpg highway and about 15 in the city.
I think now of how much the high energy ignitions and fuel injection paid off in higher mpg. Both being controlled by the ECU. You add hybrid and you got near double the gas mileage.
This is another reason I really like the TCH so much. Finally a moderate heavy car that gets high mpg in the city.
Last edited by rburt07; 09-10-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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