So, when comparing MPG, why is the emission component NEVER mentioned? In most all hybrids, that is a HUGE part of the technology. Do we need an easy way to tell people that , even at 30 MPG, my hybrid is less polluting by X many grams or similar?

I mean, sure, everyone's old car (or current one, for that matter) says they get 30 MPG so what's the point of a hybrid. At least that's what I hear when I quote my winter MPG in the 40s (even an entire tank @35 MPG! gasp!) "Oh, my current car gets that all year long." I can't help but wonder if they only know the best they've ever got on the highway, no wind, in the summer, etc!!

How do we promote the other things that are beyond MPG?

I mean, what does it take to get people to realize cleaner air is worth paying for? I see 'cleaner' bottled water going for a pretty good price...

 

I agree with the last post that there's a bit of an over-obsession with MPG for the SUV hybrids, myself included. If I look at the whole package, what I find is that the HiHy still provides the best value if you're interested in optimizing the following parameters:

- Power
- Fuel Economy
- Luxury

Look, the Highlander Hybrid (HiHy) is a V6 with a combined 268 HP. That has a price tag: fuel economy. If we're just comparing MPG, the Ford Escape Hybrid (FEH) will always kick HiHy's butt, but it comes at a cost: a V4 with 155 HP. For me, anything less than 200 HP is going to feel dog slow when it comes to the real-world requirements of accelerating into freeway traffic or even maneuvering around in local highway traffic. You simply need it in today's environment, even if you may not use it very often. Besides, you gotta have some fun... trudging around with a paltry 155 HP is just... wimpy.

When it comes to fuel economy, we have to be fair in our comparisons. What other SUV in the market with a V6 has a real-world FE of 25 mpg? I think you'll be hard pressed to find one with even a real-world FE of 20 mpg. The interesting (and torturing) thing about the HiHy is that it offers you a choice everytime to step into the vehicle. What's it going to be today? A little fun with throttle? A little conservative gas-sipping driving? It's your choice. But, you can't have your cake at eat it too.

I think the "killer feature" for hybrids, ironically is something that gets very little press: silence. All of my friends that have driven in my HiHy have noticed and appreciated this. When you're at a stoplight after you SUV has warmed up and you don't have your radio turned on... you hear... nothing. Even when your driving around, the engine noise (if there is any) is very, very low, unless you're gunning it. This is one part of what I mean by "luxury". Namely, the quality of the driving experience. I've gotten so used to this "silence" that I don't think I can ever not purchase another hybrid, just because all other non-hybrids sound noisy and unrefined.

The other "luxury" item, and I know I'm going to sound a little superficial, is the look-and-feel of the interior. Comparatively speaking, the interior of the HiHy (Limited at least) is quite nice compared to other comparable SUVs, like the FEH. The Lexus 400H, of course, is still nicer, but not by much. I've seen screenshots of the FEH navigation screen where they animate the ICE and electric motor, and it's really crude compared the the HiHy's. Little touches like that really contribute to making you want to get into the SUV and take a nice long drive.

So, is the HiHy or FEH the vehicle for you? It all depends on what you want out of the vehicle. For me, it's all about maximizing the "quality of the driving experience" at a passenger-car fuel economy.

 

I'm with the last 2 posters, though I would even go so far as to add electric A/C to the luxury list. The HiHy is a highly refined vehicle that happens to get excellent (yes excellent) fuel economy. Since the warmer weather has started I've been staying in the 29.5 - 31.5 range for fuel economy with EV mode kicking in more ofter on the highway.

I too cannot envision myself buying a noisy stinky gas only vehicle again. Now that my wife drives a Prius (traded in the Saturn ) there aren't any annoying exhaust fumes in my garage. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that there are other higher fuel economy vehicles out there, I just don't fit in them personally.

IMHO the HiHy gives you the benefit of a larger vehicle without the associated increase in fuel consumption and with improved safety (Star safety system). Would more FE be even better? sure. But I already feel like I'm having my cake and eating it too.

Good luck with your decision...

 

Perhaps, and if I offended you, I apologize. However, even a cursory glance at the boards, the learn section probably could've answered that question, and given you the feedback of others who are similarly satisified.

No, but I got this to replace my '95 Explorer that was finally starting to show it's age. Outside of "end game" problems, it treated me well all those years. My parents both have owned Fords for my entire life and before that, and outside of a single vehicle (mid '80's Escort which proved to be a lemon) never had any noteworthy problems, from the Mavericks (Plural, they both had one) to the Focus and Escort they have now.

Now, perhaps some of that is luck on our part, or misfortune on yours. Then again, my Grandmother had a Taurus, and she was rather unsatisified with it in many aspects, so perhaps it was that particular model. (I have heard that it wasn't really created for individual sales but to be affordable fleet vehicles to be sold in bulk.) I may sound a bit overly pro-Ford, but they have treated me and my family well. I know plenty of people who don't like them, or any American manufacturer, and I don't fault them one bit. By the same token, I know someone who has a Honda Civic, and will never buy Honda again after it, it all depends on relative experiences.

Back on topic, yes, emissions would be a nice aspect to advertise, something that often gets overlooked because of a lack of concern from most people. At the FEH Experience, we saw a rather novel graph, charting the emissions of the FEH for a year, and a regular V6 Escape, in tons of greenhouse gasses emitted. The FEH box was this tiny little box, while the Escape was the entire screen. As the presenter stated, it's clean enough that you could suck on the tailpipe, in a decade it emits as much greenhouse gasses as a regular Escape emits in a month; (I may be off on the actual timeframe numbers, but it was something drastic like that.) and was in some cases, cleaner to suck on the tailpipe than breathe the air standing on an expressway during rush hour.

 

Hi Diver,

I'm sorry it took me so long to post.

I don't know exactly what is resulting in our 29.9MPG lifetime on our HiHy. The "in-a-nutshell" answer I have in my head is that my fiancee and I are both numbers & video game geeks, so we fixated on the MPG. My previous car was a BMW that also had an MPG gauge, so I was pretty into higher-than-EPA MPG with that car as well (30+ MPG for a 2000 328ci routinely!)

I inflate the tires to anywhere from 35/33 to 37/35 (front/back), we coast to stop lights, kick it in to Neutral downhills sometimes, drive at the limit on freeways and at or over the limit on surface streets. We feather the gas pedal to get into the deadband or EV-only mode, use cruise control where applicable (me more than her). EDIT: I actually drive closer to 58-60 on a 65 freeway during my commute. My fiancee will be closer to 65 most of the time.

Plus, we live in Southern California, where our poor winter driving resulted in something like 28mpg in 40 degree weather, which is hardly *real* winter driving.

Conversely, I use the power a bit sometimes if need be, my fiancee uses it to drive clients around (and thus doesn't worry about MPG), and we've had several tanks where we've had nearly my entire family with us for short trips, so the numbers will dip. Without those I'm confident we'd be closer to 31mpg. But summer's coming!

Rick

 

I wasn't offended. Thanks for the additional feedback. Sounds like I should check out the Ford too (though the Toyota dealership is a lot closer).

 

Thanks for the feedback. I am originally from San Diego (and still visit there often--looks a little different than when I grew up there--I was there before the Coronado Bridge; I can remember taking the ferry when it was the only way to get to Coronado!), but now live in Baltimore, MD. Significant difference in the winters! I hope to retire to San Diego if I can swing the real estate prices.

 

Now there is an interesting point that I think I did not (and may still not) understand. Are you saying that at, say, 22 MPG, the HYHI puts out fewer emissions than, say my Volvo 850 which averages about the same.

 

You have to want the high mileage. Someone on the boards once said that these vehicles will not give you high FE but they provide the tools that will allow the driver to achieve these result. Since I started driving my Civic hybrid, the FE in my regular Escape has gone from about 21 MPG to about 25 MPG in regular, combined driving. That doesn't sound like a lot but a 4 MPG increase when I was getting 21, is almost a 20% increase. For a V6 I think that is a lot and it makes me wonder what I could get with an FEH.

You should start tracking your mileage now (GH allows you to track your mileage even if you don't have a hybrid) and see if you can achieve better results if you try. This will be the biggest determinant on whether you'll get good FE or average.

 

Quite likely, yes. I'm not familiar with either model, but I've compared my 1992 Toyota Corolla, hubby's F-150 Supercrew 4x4 pickup, and our new 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid and the hybrid is the only vehicle -- regardless of fuel economy -- in that lineup that qualifies as a SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle... silly gov't acronym for *very* low emissions).

You can compare vehicles, including their emissions levels, by going to the EPA/Dept. of Energy website, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ and selecting the "Compare Vehicles" link.