Ethanol!

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  #71  
Old 12-17-2007, 12:32 PM
gpsman1's Avatar
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Default Re: Ethanol!

Here are two tables that show how to blend your own fuel.
Give it a try, but allow several days, or about 3 tanks for your car to adjust, if possible. The chart allows you to fill at any tank level.
Please report back how your car does. There is evidence to believe 30% ethanol would be a "sweet spot" in the Ford Escape.
-John
 
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  #72  
Old 12-18-2007, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol!

John: I would try that in my HCH, but I don't drive much and 3 tanks would take me about 2.5 months. I am interested to see if anyone else gets results with their hybrids though!
 
  #73  
Old 12-18-2007, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol!

Over the highway, I can pretty much count on 33-34 MPG with cruise control set to 65 miles per hour.
When using plain old gasoline.

Using E10, on the highway, with CC set to 65 miles per hour, I get 29-30 MPG.
This is 10% less fuel economy, with 10% ethanol.
This has bothered me for a long time.
This would appear to mean the 10% ethanol was doing no work at all.
Then, I read new studies that said E10 was the worst possible fuel.
( IE the car's sensors cannot adjust to this level of ethanol )
I also read that none of cars tested had problems with E50 or less.

So I figured, what the heck.
I tried a self-blended tank of E20. No Problems at all. Not outstanding fuel economy, but not much worse than E10. I got 27.8 MPG at 65 miles per hour.

So this week I'm adding 30% ethanol.
( 3.5 gallons E85 plus 11.5 gallons E10 )
E85 is selling for $2.169 in my neighborhood, BTW...

I just drove ( from a cold start ) 40 miles to a meeting and dinner.
Almost all was highway at 65 miles per hour Cruise Control.
The return trip 3 hours later, from a warm ( not hot ) start was over the same 40 mile highway. Outside air was 16'F to 18'F.

Here's the interesting part. After 80 miles with 30% ethanol:
On the Ford Nav Screen, it says 27.8 MPG. ( same as E20 )
On the ScanGauge it says 30.8 MPG ( Tank ).

I know those are not record setting numbers, but
A) I was going fast
B) It was 16'F degrees outside
C) Almost no EV or "hypermiler" technique was involved
( there was ~ half a mile of EV at each end )

So being a curious fellow, I rest the trip meters and I drove around town for ~15 miles. After the car was already "hot" I used P&G and tried for max. fuel economy and max. EV. Keep in mind it was 16'F outside.

I was able to get 45.3 MPG on the SG and 44.4 MPG on the Nav.
Again, not record breaking, but this was a very cold night, with 30% ethanol.

I don't even have a full tank of data yet, but this is surprising to me.
All the SG values were "normal" and consistant.
Only LFT ( Long Term Fuel Trim ) went UP a few points, but it does also whenever I change gasoline octane, then stabilizes near zero after a few trips. The Octane of E30 = 92.5

*Initially, Cost per mile gas ( at $2.879 ) = $0.0872 Cost per mile E30 = $0.0921.

Cost per 10,000 miles on gas = $872.00
Cost per 10,000 miles on E30 = $921.00

E30 = ~ $49 more per year, with an average driver.
Is it worth $49 ( to you ) to support your local economy, and produce cleaner air?
How many dollars per year will you save from the Hybrid in the first place? Hundreds?

* Initial results only, non-conclusive, more testing is required.
 

Last edited by gpsman1; 12-18-2007 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Added Cost per Mile Info
  #74  
Old 12-18-2007, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol!

Originally Posted by gpsman1
So this week I'm adding 30% ethanol.
( 3.5 gallons E85 plus 11.5 gallons E10 )
E85 is selling for $2.169 in my neighborhood, BTW...
John... just a question. Do you have any worries about eating out the seals and such. As I understand it the main difference between a FFV and normal vehicles is that the seals and hoses are made of different materials because the ethanol tends to eat them. If that is true at what point is it a problem? 10%? 30%?
 
  #75  
Old 12-18-2007, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol!

No. That is a myth. Ethanol is safe for any car built after 1980.
After 1980 ( I'm told ) the types of chemicals used in plastics manufacturing switched due to reasons ( probably economic ) unrelated to ethanol. With the newer plastics, and less use of rubber, all the fuel lines and gaskets in cars are now ethanol tolerant. The reality is, smog, or "ozone" in the air will degrade any of these parts quicker than 100% ethanol will. Ethanol is not recommended in cars older than 1980, but on the other hand, how many original hoses and gaskets are good after 25 years anyway? So when "antique" or "classic" cars need to be repaired, they will automatically be replaced with the newer plastics and gaskets.

The actual difference in Flex Fuel cars is, they have an additional oxygen sensor in the fuel that can detect the ethanol % and inform the ECU that the oxygen is from the fuel, and not the air. In regular cars without this sensor, the ECU detects additional oxygen in the exhaust, and assumes the oxygen came from the air, and not the fuel.... and it thinks the mixture is "lean" and it adjusts the fuel upwards to take advantage of that "extra air" when in reality there is no extra air... This makes the mixture "rich" and your Fuel Economy goes way down.

The fuel tank and fuel lines and seals in the FEH are exactly the same as those in FFV. FFV may have slightly larger fuel injectors that may be required when more than 50% ethanol is used. Some regular cars have large enough fuel injectors to deliver 65% ethanol, but not many. -J
 
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