We took the Escape to Ford on Thursday, and paid for their hybrid tech to check over the wiring to the battery. The upshot is the car's wiring checks out fine, and the HV battery needs replacing due to the DTC P0A81 code coming back after clearing codes.

The hybrid tech did voltage and ground resistance checks, and loaded voltage drop tests of pins on the C4227A 40 pin plug and said all passed. He said he "Reconnect connectors, clear and retest. BCM On demand DTC P0A81 is still present." He also said the HV battery should be replaced. If it was the original Ford HV battery, the next step would be to perform TSB 16-0118 replacing cooling fans and the internal HV battery wiring harnesses.

We had Ford email this to Greentec. Battery #5 is coming on Tuesday. I've asked the San Dimas store if they run the BCM self-test prior to sending out the rebuilt batteries. They didn't know.

 

Argh!!! Battery 5 coded today (Monday). The car had been working fine since battery #5 was installed on Tuesday. My wife called saying the check engine light is on, the wrench light is on, and service emissions now is displayed. I won't be home until tomorrow night. She's worried the car might strand her again. She drove it around the block and said there is no assist or regen showing, and starting out is slow and jerky.

We thought battery #5 was going to be OK. Battery #5 passed the BCM Self test. The only thing odd was the BSOC was dropping fast, from 50% before the BCM self test and under 30% in only a few minutes with the key on, engine not started. The car started fine and we test drove it. At first there was limited regen and assist. After driving about 2 miles, I shut off the engine and restarted it. Then the regen and assist went up to normal.

 

All your reported conversations with Greentech are undocumented. You say they said and did things, but really what you're doing is typing into a form on a web page using a fake name telling us your tale of woe with 1,2,3,4 and now 5 Greentech batteries. Did you take any pictures of the first four batteries? Do you have any documentation of the batteries and the conversations with Greentech aside from the stuff you're typing? Do you have a verifiable account number with Greentech?

It seems like no matter what Greentech does, your battery doesn't ever work. P0A81 is a fan problem, not a battery problem per se. Maybe someone should send this entire thread to Greentech and see what they have to say. I wonder if they'll say: "We have no idea who this person is." Most of the posts with your handle here on EVF are in the Toyota Hybrid Forum and date back to 2008-9. You've only started posting things about the Ford Escape Hybrid very recently.

I have been lurking on this thread since the beginning and I'm beginning to doubt what you're saying. You're becoming very hard to believe. You can sit there until the end of time and invent stories about what someone allegedly did or did not do, but that doesn't make them true. Everyone has given you the benefit of the doubt until this point, but after five replacement batteries you haven't produced a shred of documentation to show that this whole story isn't just a big smear on Greentech. You say you're a "unix admin" and if that's true, you know by now that a lot of the stuff people type on the Internet isn't true.

I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that after five tries you can't get a battery in your car that works for more than a few days. At what point do you say: "I'm taking them to court." ???

It's sounding more and more to me like 1) You're either making this whole thing up to smear Greentech or 2) You've got some problems with fans in your battery and you can't figure out how to fix them.

Try checking the 50A cartridge fuse in position 15. You can buy remanufactued, returnable fans for $122 each with an 18 month unlimited mileage limited warranty, but they're not going to help you if the wiring is bad, the BCM is flaky, or the fuse is blown.

https://www.carparts.com/details/For...A15H2007F.html

When the Ford tech. did their tests and flagged P0A81, you say they tested the harness using the pinpoint test, which is located in "Section 413-03: High Voltage Traction Battery" of the workshop manual. Did they hook up IDS and command the fans ON through the BCM-HVTB Self Test? Did they verify they **actually turned on** by inspection (you can hear them!) and by backprobing the circuit as described? Have you or anyone else ever heard your battery fans run?

If you're putting replacement packs in this car with fans that don't work, and/or you have a flaky BCM that's not working reliably, well, there's your problem.

Here is a blurry reproduction of the pinpoint test for P0A81 from the workshop manual. It's blurry but you can zoom in and read it by clicking on it twice. Note that before the technician gets to the end and gives up, they're supposed to command the fans ON and verify their operation. It's easy to do that if they have a helper or the IDS is working on WiFi. Note that even when commanded on by the self test, the manual states that they "ONLY RUN FOR A FEW SECONDS." So if they turn them on but don't hear them (someone else with an air ratchet is taking tires off five feet away) or there's nobody back there listening, maybe they're missing it. Unless something is wrong with these fans, they're not very loud. I don't think they're more than 250 watts each, less then 1/4 a good hair dryer, not like a NASA wind tunnel.

Finally, if you keep reaching this point after five replacement battery packs, you should also know that you can subscribe to the Ford Motorcraft website for $21.99 for three days and you'll have access to the workshop manual and wiring diagrams, including the PC/EV Powertrain Control and Evaporative Emissions section. https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

 

 

I have had exactly this poor performance from GreenTec. $ Batteries and each has lasted less time than the previous. BTW mine was a 36 month battery.

 

Do you have any documentation to prove that? How about some responses from GreenTec?

How about all the rest of the stuff that could fail and cause the battery to fail? Does your AC work?

You can say anything you want after a whopping TWO FULL POSTS HERE, but it proves nothing. I'd like to see some documentation before you keep going on saying these things with absolutely no basis other than your username and two whole posts.

And I'm not saying you're wrong or calling you a liar - I'm saying that if you have had such a terrible experience, you should be able to document it. If you bought three sets of tires from Michelin and they all failed, you'd be able to document that, wouldn't you?

You could claim you've had "exactly this poor performance" from Blue Tec $, Orange Tec $, Purple Tec $, or Pink Tec $ batteries, but just saying it don't make it so.

I don't have any affiliation with Green Tec and I've never bought one of their batteries, but you can be darn sure that if I did, and it failed, I would have a long string of documentation to prove that. It's a good chunk of money, so if you have the 'docs, show 'em.

 

When I was buying leaf batteries for my solar setup, greentec would sell the most run down ones on ebay and there were tons of people complaining. Posts against them here aren't exactly proven but don't really sound out of character either. I would think if they are doing installs and offering a warranty, delivering crap would actually hurt them but who knows.

 

OK fair enough. I'd still prefer to see some real back-and-forth backed up by a little proof before I beleve it all wholesale, GreenTec sucks, they're horrible, etc. Right now I think they're the only game in town when it comes to replacement FEH batteries unless you are an expert like SKeith, so I may be calling them at some point.

I just don't like FUD that's unsubstantiated with at least some evidence. Over and out.

 

I have touched 3 Greentec batteries. All three were poor quality reconditions of Prius batteries.

In all three cases, the customer reported that the battery had been replaced in the 8-10 month since "new" timeframe. All three replacement batteries failed in the 14-16 month time frame since "new," i.e., the customers paid for a battery, got a replacement at the 8-10 month mark and needed a second replacement at the 14-16 month mark since purchase.

All three batteries were "Frankenpacks" where modules are mixed in from several other packs. One had modules from 12 different packs spanning 7 years. The two Gen2 batteries were about 60% usable, i.e., about 60% of the modules met my criteria after reconditioning. The Prius "C" pack (20 modules) was completely scrap. 0 of 20 modules were acceptable after reconditioning.

If I am aware of a Greentec battery installed, I charge a core charge to replace it. Same with GreenBean, Dorman and Cardone. I also had the pleasure of a Gen2 Dorman pack full of Gen1 modules.

Something I find consistent with other builders is the use of Gen3 modules. In 90% of cases, these modules are notably worse than Gen2 modules once they've been in a car. The Gen3s are VERY hard on them. It's rare you find more than 2-4 usable modules out of them unless you're in an extreme northern climate there temps in the 90s are rare.

AND... regardless of source, HOPE a reconditioned battery lasts 2-3 years. EXPECT it to last no longer than the warranty period.

EDIT: Concerning FEH/MMH batteries, you are getting mostly grid charged, spot-tested batteries that are possibly painted with stickers added to them. Few salvage yard sourced batteries get reconditioned because they don't generally need them, and it's so costly, it's easier to ship two replacements than test one.

 

Thanks, S Keith, that's the kind of corroborative information that I think qualifies as evidence. One question: if the pack in my '10 Limited fails, can you rebuild it or ship me a pretty good one? I can remove the core and ship it to you.

Right now I don't have to do it - amazingly the one in my car has been running great this summer, at least so far - fingers crossed - but I know at some point I'll reach a go/no-go decision. I do my best to keep it cool and so far it's been working well.

Thanks again.