Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
#31
02-05-2010, 09:02 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Although it is not widely discussed, the lead engineering on the TCH development team actually dropped dead, at age 45, 6 months before it was released. The official cause of death was ischemic heart disease, secondary to "karoshi" a uniquely Japanese term that literally means he worked himself to death.
I wonder if the push to market with such a radically new technology is the real reason these "bugs" are turning up now.
Oh yeah, as for labor unions... they had their place in this country, 50-80 years ago. Everything they fought for is now Federal Law. And I really don't want to comment further, except that the UAW gives me plenty of reason to avoid buying "murkin cars" out of sheer jingoistic idiocy. I did that in 2004, because I convinced myself it was the right thing to do. NEVER again.
I wonder if the push to market with such a radically new technology is the real reason these "bugs" are turning up now.
Oh yeah, as for labor unions... they had their place in this country, 50-80 years ago. Everything they fought for is now Federal Law. And I really don't want to comment further, except that the UAW gives me plenty of reason to avoid buying "murkin cars" out of sheer jingoistic idiocy. I did that in 2004, because I convinced myself it was the right thing to do. NEVER again.
#32
02-10-2010, 04:10 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Secretive Culture Led Toyota Astray
By KATE LINEBAUGH, DIONNE SEARCEY and NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
On Jan. 19, in a closed-door meeting in Washington, D.C., two top executives from Toyota Motor Corp. gave American regulators surprising news.
Evidence had been mounting for years that Toyota cars could speed up suddenly, a factor suspected in crashes causing more than a dozen deaths. Toyota had blamed the problem on floor mats pinning the gas pedal. Now, the two Toyota men revealed they knew of a problem in its gas pedals.
The two top officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration "were steamed," according to a person who discussed the meeting with both sides. As the meeting closed, NHTSA chief David Strickland hinted at using the agency's full authority, which can include subpoenas, fines, and even forcing auto makers to stop selling cars.
Toyota had known about the gas-pedal problem for more than a year. Its silence with U.S. regulators, and other newly uncovered details from the crisis enveloping Toyota, reveal a growing rift between the Japanese auto maker and NHTSA, one of its top regulators. Regulators came to doubt Toyota's commitment to addressing safety defects, according to interviews with federal officials and industry executives, and accounts of Toyota and NHTSA interactions the past year...
By KATE LINEBAUGH, DIONNE SEARCEY and NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
On Jan. 19, in a closed-door meeting in Washington, D.C., two top executives from Toyota Motor Corp. gave American regulators surprising news.
Evidence had been mounting for years that Toyota cars could speed up suddenly, a factor suspected in crashes causing more than a dozen deaths. Toyota had blamed the problem on floor mats pinning the gas pedal. Now, the two Toyota men revealed they knew of a problem in its gas pedals.
The two top officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration "were steamed," according to a person who discussed the meeting with both sides. As the meeting closed, NHTSA chief David Strickland hinted at using the agency's full authority, which can include subpoenas, fines, and even forcing auto makers to stop selling cars.
Toyota had known about the gas-pedal problem for more than a year. Its silence with U.S. regulators, and other newly uncovered details from the crisis enveloping Toyota, reveal a growing rift between the Japanese auto maker and NHTSA, one of its top regulators. Regulators came to doubt Toyota's commitment to addressing safety defects, according to interviews with federal officials and industry executives, and accounts of Toyota and NHTSA interactions the past year...
#33
02-10-2010, 06:53 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Considering how unimportant the gas pedal problem is for the issue of UA, the article's opening paragraph is more than a little sensationalist. Still, it's worth reading. Thanks for posting.
It's interesting that neither NHTSA nor Toyota could find a pattern of problems that justified a specific action until they came upon floor mats. Presumably, that was justified by the NHTSA survey of 1,986 ES350 owners, of which 59 reported incidents of UA, and 35 attributed the problem to a stuck floor mat.
It's interesting that neither NHTSA nor Toyota could find a pattern of problems that justified a specific action until they came upon floor mats. Presumably, that was justified by the NHTSA survey of 1,986 ES350 owners, of which 59 reported incidents of UA, and 35 attributed the problem to a stuck floor mat.
#34
02-10-2010, 07:06 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
I'd say 98% of car owners don't know what NHTSA is nor what the initials stand for.
Further, I'll assume that 97% of people who suffered UA don't know that they could (or are supposed to) alert the NHTSA.
I don't know if dealers were required to alert the NHTSA when driver's came in to complain...possibly not, although I imagine that will change, if that policy hasn't already been changed.
Finally, some drivers who had UA might not tell their dealer, maybe not even tell their regular mechanic (if they have one).
As such, NHTSA doesn't have anything close to real world statistics on driver's experiences.
As they are the arbiter of whether there is a systemic problem, or not, I think the woeful lack of information renders this a difficult position.
How many unreported cases of UA are there out there?
Further, I'll assume that 97% of people who suffered UA don't know that they could (or are supposed to) alert the NHTSA.
I don't know if dealers were required to alert the NHTSA when driver's came in to complain...possibly not, although I imagine that will change, if that policy hasn't already been changed.
Finally, some drivers who had UA might not tell their dealer, maybe not even tell their regular mechanic (if they have one).
As such, NHTSA doesn't have anything close to real world statistics on driver's experiences.
As they are the arbiter of whether there is a systemic problem, or not, I think the woeful lack of information renders this a difficult position.
How many unreported cases of UA are there out there?
Last edited by haroldo; 02-10-2010 at 07:13 AM.
#35
02-10-2010, 07:45 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
>>How many unreported cases of UA are there out there?
Who knows. But NHTSA sought to get around the problem of non-reporting by sending random surveys to 1,986 ES350 owners. They received 600 replies, with 59 reporting acceleration problems, a pretty high number. But 35 blamed floor mats for the problem.
Add to that the Saylor accident in which the 911 call reports a stuck accelerator, and the previous user of the loaner car reported the gas pedal caught on the floor mat, and it's easy to see why floor mats become target number one.
Who knows. But NHTSA sought to get around the problem of non-reporting by sending random surveys to 1,986 ES350 owners. They received 600 replies, with 59 reporting acceleration problems, a pretty high number. But 35 blamed floor mats for the problem.
Add to that the Saylor accident in which the 911 call reports a stuck accelerator, and the previous user of the loaner car reported the gas pedal caught on the floor mat, and it's easy to see why floor mats become target number one.
#36
02-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Not sure what thread to post this in, but this one seems as good as any.
This is a chart of facts about comsumer complaints vs the auto manufacturers. Interesting...
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/pr...mktid=cj260233
This is a chart of facts about comsumer complaints vs the auto manufacturers. Interesting...
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/pr...mktid=cj260233
#37
02-11-2010, 03:27 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Toyota Takes Another Hit: Prices Drop
By SHARON TERLEP
AND ALEX P. KELLOGG
Last weekend, Robert Boch sold a new Camry sedan with a sunroof and alloy wheels for $21,691, and the customer got a 0% loan on the deal as well.
Just a month ago, a similar model sold for $500 more, with a 2.9% interest rate on the loan, said Mr. Boch, a co-owner of Expressway Toyota in Boston.
"We have to do what it takes to keep things moving," said Mr. Boch. "There is blood in the water and that sharks are out. We have to protect our turf."
The prices Toyota Motor Corp. gets for its vehicles may be one of the most significant casualties in the recall and quality crisis that has engulfed the car maker.
For years, the Japanese company has been able to command higher prices than its Detroit rivals, General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC. The premium, often $1,000 to $2,000 on cars priced in the $20,000-to-$25,000 range, helped Toyota's U.S. operations ring up big profits while the Big Three struggled to stem mounting losses in recent years.
Now, however, Toyota is on the defense and its reputation for quality damaged. Last fall it recalled millions of vehicles for floor mats that can pin down a car's gas pedal. Its sales plunged late last month after the company had to stop selling eight of its most popular models, including the Camry, until it can fix a separate defect that can make the gas pedal stick.
To attract customers and jump-start sales, some Toyota dealers have been slashing prices, a tactic they rarely have been forced to use in the past...
By SHARON TERLEP
AND ALEX P. KELLOGG
Last weekend, Robert Boch sold a new Camry sedan with a sunroof and alloy wheels for $21,691, and the customer got a 0% loan on the deal as well.
Just a month ago, a similar model sold for $500 more, with a 2.9% interest rate on the loan, said Mr. Boch, a co-owner of Expressway Toyota in Boston.
"We have to do what it takes to keep things moving," said Mr. Boch. "There is blood in the water and that sharks are out. We have to protect our turf."
The prices Toyota Motor Corp. gets for its vehicles may be one of the most significant casualties in the recall and quality crisis that has engulfed the car maker.
For years, the Japanese company has been able to command higher prices than its Detroit rivals, General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group LLC. The premium, often $1,000 to $2,000 on cars priced in the $20,000-to-$25,000 range, helped Toyota's U.S. operations ring up big profits while the Big Three struggled to stem mounting losses in recent years.
Now, however, Toyota is on the defense and its reputation for quality damaged. Last fall it recalled millions of vehicles for floor mats that can pin down a car's gas pedal. Its sales plunged late last month after the company had to stop selling eight of its most popular models, including the Camry, until it can fix a separate defect that can make the gas pedal stick.
To attract customers and jump-start sales, some Toyota dealers have been slashing prices, a tactic they rarely have been forced to use in the past...
Last edited by haroldo; 02-11-2010 at 03:38 AM.
#38
02-11-2010, 08:38 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Here's an interesting news video that says Toyota will add brake override firmware to cars that come in for their mat/pedal recall. It says that hybrids, "such as Prius," already have such a system. They didn't mention TCH by name.
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=61614@kpix.dayport.com
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=61614@kpix.dayport.com
#39
02-11-2010, 09:04 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
As a result of all the news and confusion about what will or wont be done, I think it's a good idea for all to register at Toyota.
You sign up and enter your VIN and you will be able to keep up to date with all the information you'll need.
Recalls will be listed, if applicable.
You sign up and enter your VIN and you will be able to keep up to date with all the information you'll need.
Recalls will be listed, if applicable.
#40
02-11-2010, 09:37 AM
Re: Sales Halted and Production Stopped.
Here's an interesting news video that says Toyota will add brake override firmware to cars that come in for their mat/pedal recall. It says that hybrids, "such as Prius," already have such a system. They didn't mention TCH by name.
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=61614@kpix.dayport.com
http://cbs5.com/video/?id=61614@kpix.dayport.com
Thanks for this link. Interesting, but probably unrelated, it is sponsored by Honda!
