Greetings all.

Yesterday, I e-mailed the following to my dealer (not selling dealer, but one who did me right regarding rear wheel geometry fix a few years ago):

(blank)

I thought I should send you an note and go on the record after having a scare on the road today.

With five bars showing on the state of charge (SOC) meter (the SOC meter seems to sit at this point most of the time since the software update), I made a right turn (from a stop) into the flow of traffic on a main arterial road and 'floored it'. The was NO electrical assist at all. The car felt like an extra 1000 kg had been added to it. The guy behind me had to brake and he laid on the horn.

This is the first time this anomaly has happened to me, however I find that I am mirroring this and other symptoms like those found at this site:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f51/

.....such as:

• SOC recals every couple of weeks now, where prior to the update I never had any (!);
• times where the SOC shows four bars, but I will simply not get idle-stop;
• no mater how I modify my acceleration technique, I will never get more than 3 bars of assist under 90% of my driving regimen (unless the accelerator is 'floored'); and
• a 10%+ degradation in my fuel economy compared to the same time of year (for the previous four years).

It is my understanding that when it comes to questionable battery packs, the above web site seems to indicate that Honda will only entertain a new battery pack if the IMA warning lamp comes on.


My IMA warning lamp has never come on.



Colloquially, it has been said that the new software update does its best to hide a failing battery pack and prevent the IMA warning lamp from glowing.


My own driving experience seems to support the hypothesis that my battery pack is showing signs of failure and the software is masking it.



I have 110,000 kms on the car which means (even with the Honda Plus extended warranty) I have 20,000 kms of warranty left on the battery pack.


I would like to hear your opinion on all this and also have you formally record with Team Honda that I have had my first "no electrical assist and near miss" incident as of this date.


I shall e-mail you back on this subject only if the IMA lamp glows and/or I have another "no electrical assist and near miss" incident in the future.


Thank you for your professional understanding in this matter.


I'll let you know if/when I hear back from this chap.

Cheers

Mike

 

Mike, sorry for your problem.

Here's some encouraging news for you: My IMA pack was replaced by Honda without the IMA warning lamp having ever come on. Per Honda, as long as your need can be demonstrated, i.e., replicated or documented, you should get warranty support.

For evidentiary reasons, I recorded videos of such occurrences, although I never needed to use them as evidence since the Honda rep was able to observe the faulty behavior by himself. You may want to do the same.

I would not assume that your battery issue is because of the software. It's more probable that the pack would have failed anyway.

Good luck.

 

Steve, thanks for the input.

My dealer did e-mail me back and he has forwarded the info to his tech guy. He did say that before "Honda Techline will generate a file", I will need to bring the car in and have the issue demonstrated to him. A completely reasonable reply in my opinion.

He also said to call Honda customer relations simply to log the complaint into their system although they will also say that the dealer has to be able to duplicate the phenomena.

So now to see if/when/how to duplicate this such that it can be duplicated repeatedly......

100% agree.

Thanks

Cheers

Mike

 

Here's Honda Canada's (Jean, ext 6842) first take:

Dealer has to record phenomena (100% agree).

(Based on data-base info): He then asked about the condition of the car and routine maintenance. I replied I have done all my routine maintenance as per the maintenance minder and I have receipts for the products used. Jean stated "that if this went to court, you wouldn't be looked on favorably because of the self maintenance."

Jean's condescending attitude devolved the discussion to the point where I had to remind him that it is against federal law to 'deny warranty work' because of self maintenance.

I can see that Honda Canada will, when the time comes after I have demonstrated this issue to the dealer, need some coaxing to say the least.....

 

Can relate.

I got the same reaction to my own maintenance work as well as my figuring out about TSBs and such via the Internet. "Do you just sit and look for problems in your car on the Internet?" ... No, but I do wish the **** a**holes who service the car would let me know so I don't have to learn of safety problems or the like via the Internet.

PS: The local dealer's service person who was the "Hybrid expert" did not even know about auto-stop/assist/regen/etc. When they messed up a re-learning process a couple of years ago, the car behaved like a normal civic, and the person drove the car, and exclaimed: "The car drives beautifully!". Yeah.

 

btownmadness, thanks. I found it interesting after my first contact with Honda Canada, by simply re-reading (verbatim) my first e-mail to the dealer, that their first reaction is to look at some legal defense....

After my call, I e-mailed my dealer.

Here is an excerpt:And after another adventure merging onto the 401 last night, here is an excerpt of what I e-mailed my dealer this morning:
So, I'm looking for what is considered a 'hard fail' and will demonstrate that as required.

To the audience reading this rant: with my 4 listed assumptions, IS there a legitimate reason (other than failing battery) for no assist with heavy acceleration?

Thanks

Cheers

Mike

 

I had this issue with my HCHII -until- I changed the battery myself. Now I have plenty of assist whenever I need it. No loss of power anymore.

Before I changed the battery, the re-cals would specifically happen WHEN I HIT THE GAS HARD to enter the freeway. I never had an IMA light, just lots of re-cals and poor acceleration when needed.

 

Hunter, thanks.
If I was beyond the warranty period, I'd try the 190 volt/350 mAmp trickle charge technique discussed elsewhere in this site first. Then battery replacement myself second.

But with 20,000 km of warranty left on the battery, I'll try that route first.

Today, I had IMA acceleration when required. So I can see that this is going to become an exercise in how I can determine when I will not get the IMA kick, prior to the event. I won't go to the dealer until I know I can prompt a no IMA assist event 'on spec'.

Thanks

Mike

 

I hope I don't sound out of line with my following comment. It's meant to be helpful, but please disregard if it doesn't seem to apply.

This is a suggestive word of caution. Be very clear about what you want and expect, but try to befriend and 'enroll' Honda personnel in helping to (re)solve your problem, rather than to cause an adversarial (polar) reaction inadvertently.

My suggestion is general, not based on the OP or anyone, specifically. But many times I see customers "come out swinging" which can provoke strongly-held positions and slam doors that are hard to reopen later.

To be clear, I am not advocating being meek. I simply think it's not pragmatic to box anyone at your dealership into a corner. In negotiations, you always need to give the other person a way to change positions gracefully. Turn your adversaries into your friends. You won't get less, and you might get more.

Don't let emotion dominate the dialogue.

 

"Don't let emotion dominate the dialogue."

Those are wise words; I'll have to remember that when I'm at work and having a hard time.

I was wondering, with the problem of no assist during acceleration, in those situations would it help if the transmission was placed in "S" mode until the car gets up to speed?