Congrads on the SG, and yes, when you do a cold start in the morning, watch how fast you get to close loop. Close loop will not happen till the CAT gets to 500F-600F according to the manuals.

"So, what we are saying is that we need a CAT heater, a radiator heater, and a battery heater......"

Tim K, I'm not saying we need any heaters at all. The engine heats up find, and if you keep the cabin heater pump off, it will warm up even faster. The CAT also heats up even faster than the coolant, so no extra heater needed there. As far as heating the battery, I recommend always parking the FEH/MMH with a low battery SoC. The small generator will heat the HV battery while charging it from a cold start. If you can add some fake shifts in "L", that will help also. I start my day like this everyday. If you don't have a HV battery level gauge, just do your best to keep the battery low.

If I had a block heater, I'd set it up on a timer to give you that edge during a cold start. Even if it is just below 50F, it's gotta help. Debbie Katz has one, so maybe she can give some imput on that issue. I would be very careful with a radiator block and monitor coolant temp with a SG.

GaryG

 

An observation and a thought.

I do not have the Vehicle Navigation Radio in my Mariner. I have the Audiophile Radio instead. Therefore I have never been able to view the Energy Flow Screen. Instead, I watch the Battery Gauge to get feedback to improve my driving habits. Watching the needle bounce back and fourth has become part of my driving routine.

The last few days have been in the lower teens in the morning and in the higher teens low 20's for the evening commute.

The Battery Gauge seems to spend time going from assist and charge (ever so slightly) while driving with a cold car at a steady rate of speed.

I believe that HEV batteries (and most nickel metal hydride batteries) have very high resistance when they are cold. This resistance is useful in heating the batteries to operating temperature by drawing and charging at a low current.

I believe (but have no proof) that our Escapes and Mariners heat the HEV battery in this very manner.

Rick.

 

GaryG - your "cold starts" in S. Florida do not compare to most of the U.S.!!!

In below 20'F the "Fake Shift" does not work at all. The battery can't take it, the computers know this, and don't allow regen.... hardly, if at all.

And Rick... yes, you are correct to a certian degree. But I think you are over-analyzing things. I don't think it is deliberate... just a natural effect of the cold.

At normal temps ( say 60'F ) the HV battery can give/take 25,000 watts. This will generate a lot of heat very quickly! At frigid temps ( say 0'F ) the battery can only give/take 4,000 watts.

As you, I have noticed in cold, the battery gets short bursts of charge from the generator ( but at low wattage ) followed by periods of rest. When in optimum temperatures, it's a pretty much constant charge up (at a much greater wattage) till its maximum setpoint.

-John

 

You are joking, right????

 

John, trying to make some look bad sometime has a reverse effect.

"Since OBD-II vehicles may have multiple oxygen sensors located some distance from the engine exhaust ports, these sensors are generally heated to speed the warm-up time period. The HO2S incorporates an internal electric heating element to bring the O2 sensor up to operating temperature quickly (under 35 seconds). Internal heating elements usually operate continuously while the engine is running to maintain an operating temperature of approximately 1292 degrees Fahrenheit to 1472 degrees Fahrenheit. Heated O2 sensors operate at a more consistent temperature and allow greater flexibility of placement locations in the exhaust system."
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/mech.cfm

And no, I'm not joking!

GaryG

 

I've driven mine at 17F.... after about 30min of warm up there was plenty of regen.... or at least thats what the NAV and boost guage show. I watched it specifically after it was mentioned that there was no regen below 32F.....

Tonight just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.... I took my '06 FEH 4WD out in 13F weather... I took digital camera movies of my NAV and my charge/assist guage....I can post them somewhere if you want proof.... They are pretty shaky but you can see the NAV and assist guage well enough.

They both show significant regen happening....and frankly it feels the same to me as it did at 50F. It wouldn't give any regen for the first 5min or so.. but once everything warmed up, it regened perfectly normal. Even went into an extended EV mode. If there is an outside air temp that prevents regen it would seem to be less than 20F. Maybe its if the battery temp is 20F regen is reduced until the battery heats up.

 

Gary.... The SENSORS are heated, which are very small, and do not contribute heat to the catalyst. The catalyst does not have a "heater" which is what you said. Get a life!

 

Yes TeeSter... I totally agree. I meant ( implied ) that regen is nearly cut when the BATTERY is 20'F or below. Sorry for the confusion.

-John

 

okay! That makes sense.... I was starting to wonder if I was seeing things.

The electrolytes in those batteries are aqueous based (soaked into a paper like material I think). They won't freeze at 32F because of the salts in them, but they won't work well at 20F either, so that makes perfect sense.

 

John, you will never understand the FEH/MMH with that thinking. There must have been a purpose they started heating the sensors, right? Are they not heaters that control EV? Get a life? I have a life and I try to help others get up to speed of what we have learned. Please, don't confuse people with your ego. FEH Technologist? Sorry John, there is no certification for that BS.

Not many have my conditions, but it is not only my conditions that totally make my mileage. I've learn from all this. If you think your a better person, I would go title for title at any competition for mpg anywhere as Wayne Gerders has offerred, as long as you travel the same distance. I would also have to do a credit check based on your post so far!

GaryG