Hello, here goes my first posts!

I'm looking at a 2011 Ford Escape Hybrid with 116k miles on it and I was wondering what I should look for. Are there any well known signs problem points I should be on the lookout for?

I'm starting to dig into the forums, but if anyone has any pointers, even if it's to previous threads, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks!

 

Oh also, is there a Ford Hybrid ODB2 reader app sort of like dr prius? Basically one that make seeing the battery pack state easy to read.

 

Absolutely, positively do not buy it unless you are in a VERY mild climate (rarely gets over 90°F), and you're okay with the stuff at the bottom of this message. In 2010, they removed the rear evaporator that was instrumental in keeping the battery cool and making it one of the best hybrid batteries ever made (05-09). They use the EXACT same cells as the 06-11 Honda civic hybrid, which has the distinction of being the WORST hybrid battery ever made by a huge degree (30% failure rate in 3-4 years).

Exact same cells... best and worst batteries ever made. Huh?

Difference is the cooling system. 05-09 FEH/MMH is the best ever deployed for a NiMH battery. They crippled it in 2010.

I get calls regularly asking about "should I buy" this or that used hybrid. Even though it's not in my financial best interest, 95% of the time, I say "no!" before they even give me any details.

Here's what I tell friends and family: "If you are looking for inexpensive, reliable transportation with low cost of ownership, a used high-mileage hybrid is nowhere near the top of the list. When new, there is a HUGE reward potential with very LOW maintenance risk. As they age, that relationship inverts - lower potential for reward with DRAMATICALLY higher maintenance risk."

I finish with the following questions: "Have you always desperately wanted [insert make model here] and/or are you okay with spending AN ADDITIONAL $2000-5000 in unscheduled maintenance in the first 90 days?

If the answer isn't yes, I recommend they take a pass.

The only time I actively encourage used hybrids is if they are still covered by a significant portion of the factory warranty.

 

Thanks! Exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.

I'm in Central Texas, so whatever the opposite of a mild climate is, we're it.

With the current use car price environment I'm hoping to get lucky with a hybrid that can hold me over for a couple of years (ride the chip crisis and then hope to stay lucky for a bit longer).

Up until this point I've been looking at used Priuses (Prii?) From that community and various internets I concluded: Gen2 later than 2007 (apparently built amazingly) or Gen 3 2013 or newer (older ones had a head gasket leak / oil burning problem).

So aside from your advice to avoid used hybrids at all, I guess I'll take a look at 09 and see if they match my price / milage balance point (though in this environment, even those will likely be priced out of what I'm looking for).

 

This might also explain why the same dealer is selling an 09 with higher milage for the same price as a 2011.

 

Yep. You're only marginally more mild than Phoenix. I just picked up an '05 beater Prius that needs some work, but I'll be into it for less than $2500 w/156K miles. It's also a MN car, so while it may be rusted out, it has a MN battery in it, and it's probably healthier than a Phx car with 80K miles on it.

'06-07 Prius best. 08-09 have issues with leaking batteries 6X more frequently than 04-07 combined. Do not buy any Prius (or other hybrid) with less than 9K miles/year or with evidence of extended sitting/infrequent driving. All '04-09 Prius are susceptible to ABS Actuator failure. There's a guy in Ft. Worth that will install and warranty salvage units for about $1K. Otherwise, it's a $2500 repair. Try to find one that was covered under the extended warranty campaign. The replacements are better than the originals.

Gen3 Toyotas (All Camry, All Lexus, All Avalon, 2010-2015 Prius) EAT their batteries. Getting more than 150K out of one in your climate is quite an achievement. If you MUST get gen3, 2013-2015 is the way to go - even better if there's some battery warranty left.

This entire post is purely my opinion based on my experience with over 400 Prius maintenance events in the Phoenix area. YMMV.

 

It doesn't seem as bad when you do the work all yourself. Your numbers correct though. I spent about 2k to get my 09 up and running. I did dump as much or more into my honda first year. To me it seems any car >10 years old where someone wasn't replacing parts is going to have that kind of bill.

 

S. Keith's post are spot on, as he is our resident expert on these cars.

I can tell you a bit about what it's like driving a high-mileage 2008 FEH with a tired battery.

• You must drive it every other day at minimum. Let it sit for 4 days and it probably will not start. The cells bleed off energy when sitting.
• Models through mid-year 2008 have a battery boost button under the left side dash end-panel. It will charge the big battery and get your car going again. Later models do not have this.
• Fuel economy drops off as the battery does less of the work. I'm at about 25-26 mpg, which is about what the non-hybrid 4-cyl Escape got when new.
• You must run the AC whenever the ambient air is over ~75 degrees, even if you would be more inclined to open the windows and enjoy the fresh air.

The ICE is pretty bullet-proof. It leads an easy life, with the electric motor doing the heavy lifting - getting the vehicle moving. Not uncommon for them to go 300K-500K miles with good maintenance.
With all that in mind, it's a pretty decent car.

S-Keith, I'm in Fort Worth. Who is this guy that sells batteries?

 

http://www.texashybridbatteries.com

I was speaking specifically to the installation of Prius ABS Actuators. I don't believe he's ever touched a FEH.

 

S Keith is correct. I have a 2010 with approx. 64 thousand original, mostly dealer-maintained miles on it, and I've owned it for almost exactly a year now. It is beautiful inside and out, loaded with everything except a tow hitch, a Limited model with Premium Sound, SYNC/NAV, moonroof, backup camera, power and heated mirrors, leather interior with heated front seats, the whole enchilada + chips. I love driving it. I love looking at it. But I can tell that the HV battery is beginning to slip away. It's not bad yet, but not going to get better.

I bought a Heatshield window shade for my windshield to keep the interior temps. down (even in the northeast it can get over 100 degrees in summer occasionally, and direct sun is direct sun), and I do all the rest of the maintenance quasi-religiously. I will keep doing that until I am forced to reach a decision point about whether to put a used replacement HV battery into it. My guess is that the decision point will come some time in the next 12 months. I've sunk less than $500 in actual "maintenance" expense into the car in the past year and put almost 10,000 miles on it, so under $0.05 a mile. Plus new tires, but I'm not counting those as vehicle maintenance - the old ones were 11 years old and would have had to be replaced on any 11 year old car.

You will not save money buying these vehicles. If you really like the car (as I do) you will buy one and try to keep it running as long as you can, which is why I am here on this forum.

Also, the sketchier the maintenance records you get, the bigger the pile of money you can expect to throw into the car. Mine was owned by a young female dentist who treated the car as well as she treats her patients and kept it just as clean. She's a good dentist.

You might reasonably find a few bargains out there still, there are some '09s and later models being driven in fleets to this day. But don't expect miracles - you won't find them. They happen according to their own schedule.