I have been reading around various forums about the hch2 and the mpg figures I keep seeing are all over the place. Anywhere from 22mpg, too over 50mpg with a high mileage hybrid civic. Is there something I am missing towards getting over or at least around 50 mpg? That is its EPA rated mpg as well.

I have an 07 honda civic hybrid with around 124000 miles that I just got, and while the city and highway mpg beats what I last had, it isnt that much better.

Im not quite sure if there is some compilation of what should be done to go back to 50 mpg, but I would be interested in what you all know. Currently I got the IMA code, but left after I turned the car off and then on again, and a check engine light that said there was an ABS voltage issue, and the hybrid battery is going out(I just reset codes and they havent come back yet). Its funny because this is the second ima battery it has had and it also has had that firmware update that supposedly gives bad mpg, but increases battery life. Is there any truth to that? I thought about going to dealer and asking to put old firmware in which should give 50plus mpg and better HP and Torque, or would that be a bad idea?

Aside from that, what can I do that would actually raise my mpg? High end spark plugs&wires? HHO assist?(im scared to try that with a hybrid), certain tires? Premium gas? Leaner mixture?(not sure how to program it for that).

 

All systems must be in full working order, particularly 12V and hybrid battery. If you IMA light is coming on for some reason, even periodically, your systems are not in full working order.

You are likely getting recalibrations or "recals." A negative recal is where the battery is full or nearly full and then it marches down to 2 bars at 1 bar per second... force charges where the car is gutless. A positive recal usually happens after this. A positive recal is the reverse. SoC shows 2-3 bars and then it marches to full at 1 bar per second.

If you're getting either of these at any time, your battery is imbalanced, and you will not get optimal mileage.

Tips for optimal mileage:
1) limit acceleration to 1600rpm on surface streets. 2500rpm on a freeway on-ramp.
2) use cruise extensively at every opportunity it is safe to do so.
3) Never exceed 65mph.
4) Use LRR tires inflated to 40-42psi. Bridgestone Ecopia 422 Plus has worked the best for me.
5) Never use A/C.
6) Only possible in 75-85°F weather.

Note that #5 is dangerous for battery health. Battery cooling occurs by drawing air in from the rear deck. If you're drawing in hot air to cool your battery, it's not going to cool.

The patch was never demonstrated to negatively impact mileage. It basically makes its battery management very similar to how the Prius manages its battery, and nobody is accusing the Prius of reduced mileage.

Note that in 2008 EPA economy ratings changed significantly resulting in reduce mileage ratings for previously rated vehicles:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml

Here's the 07:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....n=sbs&id=23533

Note the average is 42mpg. This should be readily obtainable with normal conservative driving techniques and conservative A/C use.

Good luck,

Steve

 

hmm, alright, I will remember to keep the a/c on, I had been driving around a parking lot with it off for about 15 minutes on a hot day and thats when the ima light went on(I hope it just shut off to preserve itself). Is it possible to recondition the battery or rebalance it? Or something like that?

I had the 12V batter checked out, and the health was ok, however I can put on a high-end larger battery like the optima yellow top which I have in another car right now, would that legitimately help? Maybe a high output alternator?

Im not sure if this has been done, but I am going to buy zero resistance radio insulated spark plug wires and multi prong spark plugs, so when it does use the engine, it uses it more effficiently, which has worked in my last car. But my issue with doing that is I wonder, would that really add much efficiency, or would trying to add an hho cell be what I want? Im really scared to try that with this hybrid, but maybe I can find someone who knows what they are doing.

 

A/C use should be AUTO mode with a comfortable set temperature. If you're comfy, the battery is too.

IMA light came on because your battery likely is marginal. Your best value option is a Hybrid Automotive Prolong Reconditioning kit that charges, reconditions and balances the pack as a whole.

In any case, you should read any codes associated with IMA light or CEL to confirm the issue.

Concerning reconditioning, to give you some perspective, I own 8 packs worth of HCH2 subpacks. I can make about 2.5 good packs, one of which is very good, the second okay and the remaining subpacks are meh, but would work well in a grid charger situation. Reconditioning these packs has VERY low success. At your stage with an occasional IMA light, you might have some hope with the whole-pack approach I mentioned coupled with periodic grid charging.

Your car does not have an alternator. It has a DC-DC converter that converts IMA voltage (battery and/or IMA motor acting as generator) to charge 12V.

Avoid Optima. The hype is not warranted. They are made by Johnson Controls like almost every other battery. Too many instances of failures in 2-3 years in mild climates and batteries RECEIVED AS NEW with a resting voltage of < 10V. Replace stock 151R with a 51R. You will have to remove the plastic housing pieces, but it fits nicely.

ONLY replace plugs with the Denso or NGK OE plugs. Period. No exceptions. There are 8 (2 per cyl, front and back) and they are about $14 each.

There are no plug wires. The coils sit directly on top of the plugs. Again, 8 of them. You can get the Hitachi OE style from Rockauto for about $45 if you need to replace one.

HHO is snake oil. Period. I have personally known multiple people that have installed HHO systems, and every effort I made to obtain objective data demonstrating an improvement was met with anecdotal claims or complete and total avoidance. I lost touch with two people because they stopped taking my calls.

The HCH2 uses the gas engine almost all the time. There are some phases where it's turning, but not actually burning gas, but these are in the vast minority of instances.

Steve

 

Will just leave it on the A/C then and just unselect and not shut off.

I can understand the battery being marginal, however it seems like the newer programming already "reconditions/balances" the battery by draining and recharging as I have already seen driving it. Or is it the slow long process that is supposed to break off the crystal deposits on the polar ends? I have no time limit, but I just want it to work. Alternatively I dont mind doing what you do by having other packs, but what do they cost and are they easy or hard to put on by ones self? Im not sure how to tell what packs are "meh" and which ones are good too if you understand, so how do you do all of this?

So if optima is crap, what is a decent brand or good brand? I already have a yellow top d34/78 that I got years ago and it runs just fine, and it would beat the current battery in there by a good margin.

Ok, so why only those plugs? Have you seen the brisk multi prong plugs? http://cdn.mkimg.carview.co.jp/carli...t=094c62270f3b

They seem like a good idea, but they probably run hot, but I would have to verify.

BTW, how do you tell if CVT oil is good or bad? Im so new to all of this.

Thx, Joshua.

 

The battery behavior you are describing has nothing to do with the new programming. They are positive and negative recalibrations that are signs of an imbalanced/failing battery - the likely reason you get IMA lights.

Semi-frequent recalibrations make good mileage difficult. It's easy to get drug down into the high 20s low 30s with frequent recalibrations.

I didn't say Optima was crap. I said the hype wasn't warranted. They tend to charge a premium, and IMHO, they are not at all worth it. If you already have a battery that you believe will fit, then by all means use it.

I buy the cheapest battery I can readily find. Typically walmart or an auto-parts store.

The answer to your questions about pack quality and diagnoses are well beyond a simple explanation. I have a couple thousand $ in equipment and have 18+ months invested in the process.

Get the OE plugs because Honda hybrids are notorious for operating the best on the OE plugs. They are Iridium and run 100K miles easily. Those Brisk plugs look like a gimmick. The Brisk racing site shows those at $34 each. $34 X 8 = $272... on plugs. $14/plug X 8 is bad enough.

If you can't say with 100% certainty that the CVT fluid was changed in the last 15,000 miles, replace it. $10/qt X 3, genuine Honda only.

Steve

 

Alright, so its probably failing, is this what you meant by reconditioning?

https://hybridautomotive.com/product...ioning-package

All it seems to do is drain it and slowly recharge it in such a way as to break the crystal deposits on the polar ends and hence balancing it. Does this thing actually work?

Since explaining about packs is probably too long, what do you recommend doing? Buying that kit seems the easiest, but would it be effective? I dont personal want to spend more then a few hundred dollars to get 50mpg, but I will go up too a 1000 if necessary.

Here is the plugs I was refering too, they are only 13 dollars each.
http://www.briskracing.com/premium-l...detail?lang=en
They fit on a 07 civic 1.3 liter which may or may not be the civic hybrid, which we both have, but I have the 07 while you have two 06 models. The plugs run hot I believe, which is the main concern in using them...

Is there any real difference between the two years or even the 08 model? I dont think so.

 

yes, except you need the one for the 2006-2011 Civic.

https://hybridautomotive.com/product...ant=5576553796

The description on the site and your description of what happens during reconditioning are not totally accurate. That description is more accurate pertaining to NiCd chemistry. There is a chemistry change at the terminals that causes usability capacity to be moved to a lower potential. Total CELL capacity is not lost, but it's moved to 0.8V instead of 1.34V. The car and most devices can never use the capacity at 0.8V. The reconditioning process consumes the capacity at this level. Upon recharging the proper chemistry is restored, and the capacity is restored to the higher potential. Other issues cause deterioration that can never be recovered. Capacity is permanently lost, Internal resistance increases and self-discharge increases. The last two can't be fixed by any means.

The HA systems have been in use for years and are particularly successful on the Insights as that's where they've been used most.

Success is purely a function of how bad your battery pack is and what's wrong with it. If you have a failed cell, nothing works. If your IMA light is coming on and going off, it's likely you'll see benefit. There are no guarantees.

Note that as of 4/2016, I am an authorized installer in the Phoenix area. I do not receive payment of any kind from HA. As an authorized installer, I receive a small discount on their products. I have recommended them for a long time because it's a quality product with a long history of successful use and support of the Honda IMA community.

Again, success or failure depends on the condition of your pack, and there is no way to predict success without extensive testing.

Again, concerning the plugs, I would never consider anything but the DENSO or NGK OE style part numbers unless I was provided hard data that something worked better. These cars have 2 plugs per cylinder. How many other cars do that? You really want to mess with it especially when OE Style Iridiums last 100K without issue. Why mess with it?

2006-2008 are identical. 2009-2011 use a different battery pack, but are otherwise 99% identical.

Your arbitrary setting of cost points to get 50mpg is not relevant. You may never get there even with everything working in perfect order as all cars are a little different. If you don't have the LRR tires, you'll never get there, and that's $400-500 right there. A good battery is $2300 or so. Without a battery in good condition, you'll never get there.

You may want to consider just selling the car.

 

I love this car, and the viewing is definitely better then the Prius. Regardless, It will get far better even running on gas only then a regular car, though honda might want to rethink what they are doing given how they lost image to toyota.

The code had mainly to do with abs and voltage. Not sure if it was 12v battery or hybrid battery. If the abs is linked to the 12v, then it may just be the 12v that gave the code.

The HA system seems like a good investment, so I will buy that, unless you can sell it to me cheaper?

I heard the warranty was extended for packs made past 2009, maybe the same is true for 2006 to 2008? I can only hope, its out of warranty and I will be taking it to a dealer ship to get quotes, soon. If they charge alot for stuff and labor, I will just go after market like denso or ngk and do it myself.

Btw, is changing the cvt oil hard? Was just going to buy amsoil for it, but I guess honda oem will be fine.

 

Can you recommend a programming device? Im going to run it leaner.