mmrmnhrm ,
EXACTLY!!! The computer needs to be programmed so it will detect idle for short periods of time and idle for long periods of time.

Since cruiser spend most of the day idle, it would save tons of fuel a year.

 

I think there is a switch or key on the steering column that will do the same thing.

 

I think that AS would help, because they need to keep the engine running to power all their equipment. A good solution would be a battery to power the aux equipment while the engine is off, like in the Silverado 'hybrid'

 

@noflash,
They cannot turn their cars off because they need to be ready in case of an emergency or (occasional high-speed chase).

A high capacity battery would help to off set the power requirements of the equipment.

 

But you chose the HCH forums to post this instead of the General Hybrid ones. The latter sees far more action in what you're describing. Are you avoiding posting this topic over there for some reason? Perhaps you got a bone to pick especially with the HCH audience? I have to say that that's not playing fair because the HCH forums are relatively mild.

 

GM quite simply builds crap!
The wife's 1986 Cadillac spent more time in the shop than on the road.
The 1988 Cadillac had tweo incidents where it lost all coolant due to a manifold intake leak, the heater stopped working in 20 degree wether while on the road.
The 1998 Cadillac lost the AC compressor, and the AC control unit went out. The first owner had a long list of problems that had to be corrected.
The only problem with my 1988 CRX that had over 125,000 miles when I sold it was that the radio volume **** broke.
Our 2006 Odyssey went 35,000 miles with no problem.
Our 2008 HCH has about 6,000 miles with no problems.

GM needs to take car-building lessons from Honda and Toyota!

And that's before you consider that the only hybrids GM make either get abysmal mileage (Tahoe hybrid), or advertise hybrids that may nnever see a dealershipn (Volt).

I would prefer to by American, but I am not willing to put up with crappy cars!

 

Per K,
I would have to say that most GM cars of the early 80's and 90's sucked. Even some in the early 00's but they have done a lot in terms weeding out less effective models in favor for more reliable cars. Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, and numerous car mags across the country have acknowledged GMs accomplishments. Where I disagree with most people having beefs with GM is reliability. My family owned and own several GM products over the years, but again, having an automotive background helps keep cars running. Basic maintenance in the consumer space is also important.

GM at least makes a full size SUV hybrids compared to any other manufacture.

Now I have owned nothing but Honda and Acura. My worse mistake was to purchase a German car. My Mercedes-Benz was the worst vehicle I ever had the experience owning.

But GM has a few cars in their line up today I would love to own too. The Solstice and Vue are two that come to mind. Now neither of those two would be used for a daily commuter car, just a vehicle their respective use.

@ Spinner,
I actually haven't posted anything new on the other threads, I just default to this thread from my browser history. Reading this thread it is apparent that Honda didn't do a great job capturing consumer attention of this hybrid. I say this because some new members always post something to the effect of mpgs are not what they expected. Then the next post in the thread is almost always, "did you read tarbell's article?"

I am guilty of posting the same type of questions early on. I still haven't gotten high mpgs, but am happy where I am at now. That also doesn't mean I don't like my Civic, just like any other Honda product I have owned, it is problem free. To me that is more important than gas mileage. But it doesn't help Honda that people are having issues with mileage.


Hybrid competition is a good thing, the next generation Hybrids will be better. Eventually all hybrid technology will be standardized across the board so the argument of which one is better will disappear. BMW just demonstrated a new diesel / hybrid SUV with a integrated solar panel in the roof. Europe has been a slow adopter of the hybrids Japan and the US released.

 

Arbittan - You do a great job at getting conversation rolling. It gives me something to read during the day, when I've got nothing else to do (well, not really nothing to do, but rather putting off what I need to do).

Anyway, my take on the whole hybrid situation is this:

There's a delay with auto makers going all out to any particular approach at this point. They have a few years to get their fleet MPG up to meet the new federal standards (however, I'm sure that somehow they'll manage to get around it). There is also no guarantee that cars will continue to run on gasoline forever. The battery manufacturing process is also very harmful for the environment. So, while we are using less fuel and having a blast driving them, the effect of building them can almost offset the savings in an environmental sense.

I do agree that most Honda & Toyota are more reliable than typical vehicles of the "Big 3". However, over time, they've become much closer in those terms. I believe that most of the "buy foreign" for a more reliable car, is still mostly perception now than it is reality. My only american vehicle was my Geo Metro (basically a suzuki sprint) and I had it longer than any other vehilce and had no issues other than an alternator that had to be replaced. There was no real issue with my other vehicles, just chose to get different cars. Granted, it's hard to say anything as all my other vehicles were used and not new.

My take on the future of vehicles, is that we will do the hybrid mostly, until such time as we can move towards other fuels. I see a gradual shift to vehicles which run on different fuels, without any kits or changes. I get a feeling that there won't just be "gasoline" but also other forms of fuel. I then see a move towards mostly electric driven cars with an ICE backup for the longer trips. With improvements in technology, I'd imagine it to be plugin, possibly with some sort of renewable energy setup to assist with charging as well as using the regen & kinetic energy from braking to charge the battery. I would love to see a self sustainable electric car where you could go 200+ miles on a charge alone, with the ability to have it recharge itself similar to the current blend of hybrids. Obviously, this isn't feasible in today's world, but maybe 50, 75, 100 years down the road it will be the way it goes.

Well, that's just my thoughts on things. The Big 3 made a killing selling big gas guzzler SUV's and to an extent I can see their reluctance to change. However, if they don't then we'll be left with nothing but the foreign car makers. In the end, I just don't see the gov't letting that happen, but do see less of an overall selection in the long haul.

Hope everyone's have a good weekend!

 

I've had to bite my tongue through this whole discussion, but can't do it any more.

GM cars under Roger Smith's reign (of terror) were generally look-alike crap. I think everyone is in agreement that. The Big 3 were focused on short term geegaws that caught the consumer's eye in the short term, but grew weary of in the long term (exceptions are also there).

My family and I have owned many Big 3 cars, and frankly some are better than others. Consistently of the Big 3, we have been able to keep the GM cars on the road the longest and the Chryslers in the shop the most.

Full Sized GM cars (FWD) and trucks from 1990-2000 (in my experience) are very reliable cars. I see more LeSabre/Park Ave/Deville/Bonneville/88/98 on the road today than I do of Accord/Camry of that range. I've owned several of them and have been able to put at or above 200000 miles on them with nothing but minor repairs (alternators/starters mainly).

That said, in 2000 GM was still building 1990 era cars, especially in interior materials and asthetics, whereas the import makers moved on.

We have also owned a few import cars, and again, there are some better than others. The Hondas typically stay on the road the longest, and the European cars stay in the shop the most.

One family vehicle we owned was an '85 Toyota Van. I learned to drive in it, and it was generally reliable and we were able to put 200000+ miles on it. It also had a voracious appetite for alternators and batteries. Unfortunately a Toyota alternator is 1.5-2.0 x that of a GM alternator and installing it in an awkward vehicle as an annual event after year 5 grew to quite an expense.

The Audi 100 Quattro I owned was by far the worst vehicle I have ever owned as far as reliability. It was a bottomless money pit, and fortunately was wrecked before it sucked me in further than it did.

I have also driven many, many current generation Toyota Camrys and have been shocked at their inattention to detail, which for many years was the Toyota hallmark. In my opinion, Toyota has accelerated the drive to become #1 and they are making some strategic mistakes that may cost them in the long run.

Things on several different Camrys I have observed recently: flash molding, squeeks and rattles, misaligned interior bits, loose trim

I would also like to point out that the general public is also able to ignore quality flaws in vehicles, so long as they offer an abundance of 'something else'.

I think back to the popularity of the italian and english imported sports cars, esp of the 70s-early 80s era that were truly unreliable cars. People bought Chrysler minivans in droves, even though they weren't the most reliable cars on the road. Ditto the Ford Taurus. Granted, eventually there was a price to be paid for the lack of reliability and it could be argued that the manufacturers lost that 'something else' factor time as well.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that in today's market there are very few unreliable cars. There are cars that are more reliable. There are also cars that are more desireable. There are cars that cost more to be fixed. And I think we are about to see a shift in a lot of long standing generalities as it relates to all three.

 

Caholla,
Nicely put. I couldn't say it better.