Looks like you could simulate P&G. Slowly accelerate up to 43 miles per hour. Let off the accelerator and hope the needle falls into the EV mode. Then slide the lever to neutral to Glide. Once slow enough, place it in drive and do it again. I tried the P&G once. No glide in the TCH. Tonight I remember putting the drive lever in neutral once you in the EV mode, should give you a glide. I never tried this but it might work.

I have coasted down a slow mountain for 16 miles in neutral. Once the car is in the EV mode I move the lever to neutral. I have done this 3 times with no problems. It's a 4-lane highway with coasting speeds to 74 mph and as slow as 40 in a few places. When in neutral your on manual (not to good) brakes. The battery don't charge or discharge and the engine is off. Somehow the heater still works on low fan at 71/72 degrees. I also noticed the battery can go below 40% from the headlight and heater drain. Lucky the end of the 16 miles is where the battery show about 40% capacity.

I did call around and found the in the transmission case the motor/generator is submerged in oil. Also there is a axle drive chain turning all the time that throws oil all over the power split device.

My favorite is driving in the EV mode. Tonight it was 50 degrees here in our area. I found the battery was charging lots faster than when it's cold. I came down a overpass and had to stop at a red light. I slightly rode the brakes which brought the battery from 85% up to a 95% charge. It was well above the + and - indicators. I took off slowly on the green light and noticed even up a slight grade I was still in the EV mode. I put on the cruise on at 28 miles per hour as there was no traffic even out on the highway. I matched one of my longest runs in the EV mode which came out to 3.18 miles. My best is 3.25 miles. Maybe when it warms up more I can go further.

There are other places on the highway were I can hit one and two miles in the EV mode. My overall gain this time was 3 mpg on the 10 mile ride to our house.

I also noticed it's easier to gain mpg when the tank is near full or near 3/4 of a tank. Below that it's harder to increase your mpg.

 

Really? After reading the P&G posts and associated links I started to test this out over the weekend in my TCH. With the correct touch I was able to have the ICE off and no arrows to or from the battery (obviously, no arrows from the ICE because it was off at the time). Maybe I misunderstand the P&G concept - but I was able to achieve a no arrow in any direction with the ICE off.

 

The next time your coasting in drive with the ice is off and the battery is charging. Slip the lever from drive to neutral. You will be gliding. If you need any braking, be sure to move it back to drive then brake. I do this when i'm coasting down some mountains that are not too steep. I leave it in drive on the steep ones.

Someday I will measure the angles of the two mountains I do this on. Actually I did not pick up as much mpg as I thought I would gliding the 15 miles in neutral. Next time I will try it in drive for comparison.

My theory. The reason the TCH don't glide in drive, is that is has only one generator/motor. It switches electrically in a instant to charge the battery or drive the wheels.

The Prius has two separate motors, one generator and one drive motor. They may use a relay to do the switching from one to the other. Could be the ECU is programmed to have the glide function.

 

Both TCH and Prius use the same HSD technilogy, and the TCH also has two motor/generator's

We know the no-arrow display threshold is very narrow on the Classic (NHW-11:2001-2003) Prius comparing to the current 2004- Prius, and it's same as on TCH.

In Japan, the NHW-11 Prius drivers are seeing very good glide using light foot pedal level.
The no-arrow display threshold on the 2004- Prius is very wide, and we see up to 10A battery usage even no arrow is shown on the MFD.

Of cause, the heavy use of the battery power will worsen your fuel economy.

Ken@Japan

 

Your right. I found this:

Both the MG1 and MG2 use a rotor containing a V-shaped, high-magnetic force permanent magnet that maximizes the generation of reduction torque. They use a stator made of a low core-loss electromagnetic steel sheet and a high voltage resistant winding wire. Through these measures, the MG1 and MG2 have realized high output and torque in a compact construction.

Looks like if the Prius and TCH are the same other then the ice size. Then one would be able to P&G either car. Could be it's simply in the programming of the prius that allows this.

Here below you can click on motor or generator at the bottom of this page.

http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en...rid_motor.html

 

Simple answer (already raised)... Conservation of Energy. No energy cycle is perfectly elastic, all energy conversion incur some loss.

Lets just guess on the efficiencies, you can fill in your own numbers later if you like.

1. Regen - 95% - Mechanical efficiency of the electric motor generator converting kinetic energy (motion) to electricity.
2. Battery Charge - 95% - Chemical efficiency of turning electricity into chemical potential energy (this is how batteries store charge).
3. Battery Discharge - 95% - Chemical efficiency of turning chemical potential energy into electricity.
4. Assit - 95% - Mechanical efficiency of the electric motor generator in converting electricity into kinetic energy.

That translates to a 77% (95% * 95% * 95% * 95%) round trip efficiency. So you only get 77% of the energy you try to store, back when you need it. It suggests that you shouldn't try to use it, if replacing it has such a toll.

Don't confuse this with Thermal Efficiency. That's a different subject. This assumes you already have the energy. Do you use it or store it. I say use it.

11011011

 

Correctly stated -- and you use it when you have it. However the larger engine and the larger mass of the TCH throws a change in variables into the mix. (This is, after all, a TCH thread). The change is that the larger ICE is less efficient at very low speeds becasuse it needs a minimum threshold RPM to produce power at all -- and when it produces power it produces more than is needed for the very low demand of low speed creeping. Therefore you either use the "extra" power not being utilized for propulsion and store it as a charge, -- or you loose it as heat. If you accept that you charge, you now have it, so use it as propulsion energy to increase the ICE "off" time at low speeds.

So, now in low speed scenarios we have "best case" == true glide with no current in either direction and ICE off, and "next best" == alternating between periods of traction motor low speed drive (yes, even accepting the inefficiencies) and ICE drive with recharge. Actually, once the battery is has reached its upper SOC threshold, the TCH will try to do this anyway either as traction drive or as motor assist. The only difference in the "next best" is that the driver is making the decision as to when to use the charge rather than the ECU, and can thus gain an efficiency increase by recognizing an opportunity to more effectively use the stored energy.

 

Totally agree. I have my own minimum speed threshold below which I don't use the engine. Different mass different threshold, but when creeping real slow, running the engine is murder of FE.

11011011