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2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

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  #21  
Old 03-01-2022, 10:59 AM
S Keith's Avatar
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

Originally Posted by AlexK
SKeith, I thought 300V was the absolute minimum to start the car?
Generally yes, but one does not refer to a 12V battery as a 12.6V battery or a 13.0V, or a 14.4V battery because they can operate at that level.

Batteries are stated at a "nominal" voltage.

A lead-acid battery is 6 series cells each at 2V nominal even though the battery will rarely be sitting at 12V (unless it desperately needs a charge).

A FEH battery is 250 NiMH cells in series. NiMH cells have a 1.2V nominal voltage. 250 * 1.2V = 300V.

A 6S Tesla lithium NCA module is a (6 * 3.7V) 22.2V battery even though it can be charged to and will hold > 24V.

It's okay to say a FEH battery is a 350V battery if we start calling all batteries out according to some elevated voltage, i.e., when we start putting 14V batteries in our cars, or 59V batteries in 48V systems, then we can start referring to the FEH battery as a 350V battery.

Why does this matter? Energy.

Batteries store ENERGY. If it's expressed as amp-hours, it's incomplete. It's not a measure of energy. The NOMINAL voltage is needed to determine the actual energy.

A fully charged 12V/100ah battery stores 1200Wh - Wh is a complete unit of energy.
A fully charged FEH battery stores 300V * 5.5Ah = 1650Wh
 
  #22  
Old 03-01-2022, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

@SKeith: Thanks for the detail, including the number of cells and their nominal voltage. When I rattle these numbers off to people who have never even seen a Hybrid before but have my car on a lift, I want to make sure I'm correct.
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-2022, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

Oh, and @SKeith: And yes, I was aware of the relatively low capacity of the HV batteries in our cars. Mine will push the car around in EV mode in lazy town traffic for about 1.5 miles, MAX! - under excellent conditions - before the gas engine MUST start. As you admonished me a long time ago, the HV battery is best thought of as a way to recoup and store (through regenerative braking and/or direct charging via the transaxle MG) a relatively *small* amount of energy that is then used to improve the overall efficiency of the drivetrain, but with all the vehicle's propulsive (and other) energy ultimately coming from gasoline. A lot of independent service techs think that it's a "big battery" - it's not really. It's a SMALL battery that kind of "looks big."

That's why I wish these years and this particular platform had remained in Ford's "stable" for another generation, with an enhanced High Capacity battery pack available as an option, instead of Ford galloping off into the awful-to-maintain and smaller 2013-2019? Euro-design models. The ones where you have to remove: 1) Both Front Doors 2) The Dashboard 3) Much of the front interior 4) The AC/Heater assembly in its entirety and then 5) Put in a whole, new, sealed one ---- to replace a flap inside the AC/Heater assembly.

I PREFER this platform to the newer vehicles for a number of reasons. With two more years of improvements and refinement it would really have been an incredible car, but you live with what you've got. Somehow mine still feels like "more than the sum of its parts."

And MAN I still see a lot of these year Escapes on the road where I live. Even the base models and the 3.0L and FlexFuels are still very popular cars and still look "modern enough." People hold on to them! The only thing that really kills them seems to be RUST, which is why I have my undercarriage washed and inspected during the winter.
 

Last edited by AlexK; 03-01-2022 at 11:55 AM.
  #24  
Old 03-01-2022, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

I think the FEH/MMH was a losing prospect for Ford when compared to the market and fleet mileage boost it got with the Fusion/C-MAX hybrids and Energi models. Just not enough mpg from a SUV platform to help their fleet rating.

For me, it was over in 2010 when they removed the rear evap. They just took an awesome design and pooped on it. Game over man...




 
  #25  
Old 03-02-2022, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

Well, SKeith we may disagree a little (in action, but not in theory) on that last point but we're solid on Bill "Butter Your Muffin" Paxton, may he rest in peace. Absolutely one of my favorite and most memorable character and supporting actors from my misspent youth and beyond, and by most off-screen accounts I've read, a really good person who perished too soon.

 

Last edited by AlexK; 03-02-2022 at 10:54 AM.
  #26  
Old 03-02-2022, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

LOL. Godspeed Mr. Paxton.
 
  #27  
Old 09-28-2023, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

Thank you everyone for your input, I've learned a lot from this thread.

But, I'm back now with a new issue that's very challenge to find info on Google.

Today, drove the 09FEH to Publix, when I put it into park, it just felt weird like the brake didn't catch, the gear shifter felt very easy to move back and forth from D, N, R to P, all the shifts work except Park doesn't seem to be engaging the parking brake. My spouse got out, walked to the front and while the car was in park but running she pushed it to see if it would move like it's in neutral and it started rolling backwards and the stop safely now was triggered. So, I turned off the car and turned it back on, it started ok but it seems like the shifter is not clicking between drive, neutral, reverse or park as it used to, like it slides very easily rather than catching on each shift, lie there was some kind of tension from a spring that is now no longer present.

When I got home, I put it into park and the vehicle started rolling forward. So, I used the parking break to keep it in place. It seems the Park isn't doing anything, I found one video about it getting stuck in park but not the opposite where park is basically now neutral and I'm concerned I'll be out randomly driving it and it will accidentally shift into neutral or reverse or I'll get his with a stop safely now, (which is the worst experience).

Any suggestions? Could it be the TBS has become unlocked and needs to be relocked or a spring has broken? I thought the shifting itself is done in the main engine because it's a hybrid?

Or, is this a "you're gonna need to take it to the shop" situation, just hoping it's something I can handle myself with the right guidance.

Any suggestions, much appreciated.
 

Last edited by 09FordEscapeHybrid; 09-28-2023 at 09:38 PM.
  #28  
Old 09-29-2023, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

I found this on another thread here but I'm not sure if this applies to my 09FEH & I didn't see any cable.

Re: Does eCVT transmission have a parking pawl?

They do and the only purpose of the shift cable is to engage that pawl, gear selection is all managed by the range selector in the shift level base through the computer. Find the shift cable on the transmission (I recall it being on the front) and see if it moves when shifted, it might be a broken cable or disconnected, if you can't engage it manually by moving the lever on the transmission then stay away as parts are not available for the internals of the hybrid ecvt. Even if the part was available you need to disassemble the transmission to reach it and it likely has other damage.

I might need this in simpler terms.
 
  #29  
Old 04-03-2024, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

do you mean there is no starter like a conventional vehicle has, but instead, it is started by the hybrid electric motor. So, it's not like this vehicle can simply have a starter gone bad or swapped out to fix it this issue. correct?
 

Last edited by DeanMassye; 04-03-2024 at 11:08 AM.
  #30  
Old 04-03-2024, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid - Won't Start

Originally Posted by DeanMassye
do you mean there is no starter like a conventional vehicle has, but instead, it is started by the hybrid electric motor. So, it's not like this vehicle can simply have a starter gone bad or swapped out to fix it this issue. correct?
I had the ignition switch swapped out a few years ago. When we bought the vehicle the electric key struggled to connect properly during the process of starting the vehicle and eventually stopped working. We swapped it out with a new ignition switch and it worked again.

However, separately, if the hybrid battery doesn't have enough juice, it won't start the vehicle.
 
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