If the 12V light is on all the time, you will be stranded on the side of the road in very few miles. If you need to use the car for short trips, you MUST put it on a 12V charger overnight.

 

Steve, apparently, after I did the autozone check, and did the prescribed recall again. The 12 battery light went out. For now it is only showing up at the start of the day. So I got that going for me. It seems when it sits without being driven any longer than over night... that is when I see the lights the longest after that. I am calling Falcon Hybrid today to ask for another battery. I hope to keep you posted and truly appreciate your candor. I can use an honest reply.... for free .... You are doing a good deed as far as I am concerned. Thank you again, Steve

 

Falcon shouldn't hesitate to replace your battery. If they refuse, check the voltages of the taps using the instructions earlier in the thread. With that data, they can't deny you.

 

HI Steve; Well I got a third battery from Falcon. It lasted 2 weeks before the 'dreaded IMA battery light" came on. I took it to the dealership they said it is 75% charged with a 72% capacity. They also said I was not driving the car enough to keep it charged and that it would continue to deteriorate unless I drove it more. Since last Wednesday: I have driven 210miles. The IMA light stays off at first in the mornings then comes on at about 3/4 of a mile driving. The check engine light stays on. I have a discharge cycle that repeats continuously. The display shows the battery as fully charged 4-5 minutes then down to about 2 bars for 1-2 minutes then back again to showing fully charged. I sometimes have auto-stop when fully charged. I have jerky power/acceleration when it is at 2 bars. I am now averaging 40 miles a day, driving. But I am facing winter and running the defrost/heater to make the car driveable.... so who knows if 40 miles a day is enough. I don't and even the dealership told me they did not know if I could 'recapture' capacity with increased driving. And they told me a new battery would also deteriorate at my natural average daily commute of 14 miles a day.... but the good news is they predicted 5-6 years for a new battery to deteriorate. (of course!). I have told Falcon I would like a refund, and I am in the process of getting a new battery. I am really, really disappointed that I could not find an affordable alternative to the dealership. Especially since they will be charging me $500 for a core charge ...to responsibly dispose of the core.... even though I have decided to return it to Falcon for their business and future clients that are better candidates with higher daily commutes. What a racket! The dealerships have the upper hand on this part, primarily because you cannot get a new battery anywhere else. I will try to keep you posted once all this goes down. I really appreciate your help, Steve. Sorry to have been away for so long.


bye for now,
Kim

 

You got another bad battery from Falcon. The gauge behavior you are describing is a recalibration indicating the battery is badly imbalanced.

The dealer is full of ****. 14 miles/day is marginal, but it is sufficient. Honda's official stance is in the owners manual (it's on the Honda website if you don't have one), and I think it's 30 minutes of continuous driving ONCE per month.

You have multiple options for new batteries. Bumblebeebatteries.com is the best option IMHO at $2295 with a 3 year warranty.

Consider this when considering getting a new Honda battery:

Failure rates of 2009-10 batteries were 30% in 3-4 years. Those were NEW batteries in NEW cars. Failures have been so bad, Honda quietly extended the warranties of all 09-11 HCH to 10yr/150K miles. I have ZERO confidence in a pack sold by Honda. Zero.

The core charge is not for disposal. The core charge is to get the case. Nobody but Honda has ever made new cases. The builders/reconditioners need the case, or they don't have a business.

 

Just talked to Honda Dealership to ask about not charging me the $500. They finally admitted to me that the 'new' battery I would be buying from them...would actually be a refurbished battery as well; and the reason they charge the $500 is so that Honda may refurbish the one I turn in for resell as well... Their explanation...not mine! I currently have a really good relationship with Falcon. No shipping charges for any of the replacement batteries... Albeit I have had to install them all myself to save that fee... I cannot find a better deal ... and for a little more I can extend my current 18 month warranty another 6 months... I am sorry to say; due to the financial strain (I guess I will live with the emotional and physical strain LOL) I will probably stick with Falcon and extend my warranty. Attempt to sell the car and/or get a negative equity trade in on another type of car that is less costly to maintain. Thanks again, Steve. I really have learned a lot from you. I do have the owner's manual and am looking into the mileage thingy for sure! You are awesome, and I only wish you were local here to take a look at things too. Take care. -Kim

 

http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/p...7/NC0707OM.pdf


page 213:


"Reconnect the 12 volt battery and
drive your vehicle every month for
about 30 minutes. This will keep
the IMA battery charged and in
good condition."


I'm going to speak bluntly in hopes of getting through to you....


"good relationship with Falcon"? Are you kidding me? They have supplied you with 3 defective batteries. How is that a good relationship? How much of your time has been wasted due to this "good relationship"? How many times do you think you're going to have to replace it in the 18-24 months? 6-8? The data suggests "definitely."


A better deal is a reasonable price for a reliable product. Cheaper isn't usually better unless all other things are equal. Falcon is selling you garbage. You seem to think otherwise. One definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results.


Falcon clearly does not have a reliable process for testing and reconditioning HCH2 packs. That's because it's hard, and you have to go to the cell level. It's highly unlikely they've been doing that, or they would not be producing garbage.


You are throwing good money after bad, and I also question Falcon's sanity as they're likely going to be out another $1000 or more in round-trip shipping fees by the end of the warranty period.


IMHO, get a refund and get a Bumblebee. Even at 5X the price, it's a better deal because you get a reliable product with newer, higher capacity cells with a 3 year warranty. Falcon is a crap deal any way you look at it.


Steve

 

Ok Steve;
I get it you are a Bumblebee fan. I just don't like the idea of changing horses mid race; and getting in too deep with another company that will not cut me a break on shipping if I ever need a replacement ... We really don't know 100% that I won't need one, come on give me a little grace on that point, please. The quote you gave me from the manual refers to storage of a car specifically. Not necessarily pertaining to daily or average usage (non-storage scenario). Steve; you have been a great resource to me; answering bluntly about a lot of questions. I will seriously consider asking for my money back. But give me a little sympathy, ok? This has been a nightmare for me. AND I am talking health issues too. I am doing all the work...without recourse and I really just want to be a female. NOT a mechanic


I wanted to ask you about grid chargers. What is your experience with grid chargers?

 

It's not that I'm a Bumblebee "fan". I am not a fanatic about anything. I could say something corny about being a fanatic about doing things right or some-such garbage, but I don't support anything without data. I have been given a lot of insight into the specific testing that Bumblebee does on the NEW incoming replacement sticks, sorting and matching, etc.


Having tested nearly 2000 sticks/modules myself, I can see that they are at the cutting edge of what is even possible.


Bumblebee does not charge shipping in either direction for warranty replacement. Period. They send you a new pack. You install and return ship the old using the pre-paid label.


Yes, they have failures, but their failure rate is EXTREMELY low.


If a horse throws you off 3 times before the first half of the race is over, why the hell would you want to stay on it? It's pretty safe to say that the horse isn't done throwing you. Falcon has a rep. It's not the best. I'm astounded and frankly very pleased that they've been as supportive as they have been. Good on them.


You don't need sympathy. You need a solution. If health issues are a factor, that just drives it home. The faster you can put this behind you, the better your life will be in several aspects.


Here's what you need:
Pay a fair price.
Install a NEW battery.
Have a high degree of confidence of trouble free operation for 3+ years.


Grid chargers are very useful. If you have a battery that craps out in 2 weeks, they're not very helpful. They are best used as a preventative maintenance tool to prolong battery life. Once a battery has tripped an IMA light, you're just delaying the inevitable total failure of the battery often without restoring full function.


EDIT: Forgot to mention your comment about driving vs. storage...


It doesn't matter. If you only need to drive it for 30 minutes ONCE every month during storage, don't you think driving it more than 30 minutes collectively during the month is enough? Even with a 14 mile daily commute, I suspect you're driving at least 400 minutes per month. Your increase to 40 miles/day is more than adequate.


You're imagining a distinction because you've been misled by the dealer.

 

Agreed. I have been thrown three times and I didn't like it, not even once. I will seriously consider requesting a refund. But need to still find the additional funds to get a 'new-like' battery from Bumblebee.